Posted on Feb 7, 2015
What do you "Honestly" think about women attending Ranger School?
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Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 240
I haven't read any comments yet...but I will just say if they meet all requirements to be a Ranger, then they are a Ranger. No exceptions, no making the standards easier, no mollycoddling....they met the standards.
There you go my honest opinion. Now that I've read a few comments. I will just say there doesn't need to be female vs males slots, if they are the best soldier to attend the course, then they are the best soldier to attend the course.
I've said it before in many comments, you think you can stand up and do one of the hardest, grueling jobs in the Army then prove it. Meet the standard that has been set and prove that you earn the opportunity to be an Army Ranger.
There you go my honest opinion. Now that I've read a few comments. I will just say there doesn't need to be female vs males slots, if they are the best soldier to attend the course, then they are the best soldier to attend the course.
I've said it before in many comments, you think you can stand up and do one of the hardest, grueling jobs in the Army then prove it. Meet the standard that has been set and prove that you earn the opportunity to be an Army Ranger.
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1SG David Lopez
I agree with you. Every professional would agree, no preferential treatment to get in or complete the course. Thank You,
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Ok, as I'm reading all of these comments, to me it seems as though these females have something to prove. They keep talking about the physical shape that they're in and how they can out ruck this or that guy. Cool. But to the guys out there my question is this.....for those that have specialized and gone Ranger, etc., what are your living conditions like? Is there any privacy? I'm sure it's in close quarters if you're on a mission and there's no room for modesty. With that being said, women being put into that environment is just asking for trouble. Most out there might be able to conduct themselves professionally but you have those immature types that can't control themselves.
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1SG David Lopez
I agree with you. Also, when students get recycled, they have alot of time to wait for the next class. I can't even imagine what kind of misappropriate relations will occur, student on student, we also have support staff, potentially staff and student relationship. Some serious things to think about. Thank you for being honest.
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1SG David Lopez
My neice just graduated from the USMC basic training. I am proud of her. While she was in high school, I tried to talk her into joining the Army (I was Army), mainly because the Army is huge and I thought she might have more opportunities. She mainly wanted to: her words, "Be part of the toughest". I quickly realized she was young and infuenced by someone. Anyhow, she just graduated, and the only thing that really stood out when she was asked how she liked it, she stated that she could not stand drinking tap water, she was looking forward to drinking bottled water. Wow! Listen Ladies, FYI, there ain't NO BOTTLED WATER in Ranger School. Deal with it. This may or may not be a deal breaker (braker).
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CPT (Join to see)
1SG David Lopez They do have mountain spring water in the mountain phase. You go down to a creek and fill your canteen up and pop in some iodine tabs and you are good to go. Twigs and all.
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I think anyone, regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity, should be able to attend any training or leadership school funded by the tax payer...That is all.
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I would follow any capable, qualified leader regardless, but experience in my time showed me that to put your people into harms way because you didn't have the ability to handle the situation had bad results. Some didn'the even make it back to the fire base. A piece of cloth or tab, whatever, regardless of what it indicates won't protect you, only those around you will.
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I really don't care... It's a school. Nothing more. If they graduate, great. If they don't, who cares? It's just a school. I'm more interested in the day to day performance of the Soldiers around me, not what schools they attended.
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Women should NOT be in combat roles such as Rangers, SEALs, etc. There are soooooo many reasons why. We are "the fairer sex" and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We are built differently and let's face it, men are built to be stronger, faster and they don't have that pesky time of the month. I just want to say that I'm all behind women pursuing whatever goal they're trying to attain but this is just opening up a can of worms that is a waste of time, money and resources. If you can pass the standards as they stand for men AND pull your weight and then some then go on with your bad self. Other than that, this is yet just another horrible idea from this current administration.
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Honestly, l am tired of this PC mentality driving our society and now invading our military. There are major differences between men and women, this is not a negative thing, it's simply the truth. I will never give birth to a child and no amount of PC will change that and honestly, God bless women because I don't think I could handle what they handle!! With that being said and having served in the 75th I am against women going to Ranger a School, serving in the 75th or any infantry unit.
....if you show this to my wife, I will deny all knowledge of this post, claim I was hacked and beg for mercy (in a manly way of course) RLTW
....if you show this to my wife, I will deny all knowledge of this post, claim I was hacked and beg for mercy (in a manly way of course) RLTW
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1SG David Lopez
RLTW Brother, we won't tell your wife, thanks for your honest comment, I agree with you 100% and then some.
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CPT (Join to see)
RLTW. I agree. I am tired of see all of these Ranger Experts out there. I never knew everyone was well versed in the way of the Ranger. I was 18th ABC Long Range Surveillance. We had over 100 pd rucks in combat. It sucked then we got into a gun fight. That is what we do. I just don't see this being something that will cross the gender lines very well.
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well not my specialty....However you guys are suppose to be badass....I trust the instructors will have a honest assessment.
I myself don't think it can done...I been proven wrong before
I myself don't think it can done...I been proven wrong before
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1SG David Lopez
If a woman can pass without the standards changing for her, she will be and is one Bad Ass Mother F......
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As a 75th Ranger Regiment Alum, I'll say this for the record.
If a female Soldier can hack it in an unadulterated manner, to the exact same standards, if not beyond, as males, then those individuals and those individuals alone should be afforded the opportunity to join the ranks.
I would advise strongly against opening the Ranger Regiment and RTB to women for the sole purpose of political correctness. What they do day in and day out is very serious business and is not meant for everybody. Hence why if you cannot hack in, you CAN quit.
Just my two cents
If a female Soldier can hack it in an unadulterated manner, to the exact same standards, if not beyond, as males, then those individuals and those individuals alone should be afforded the opportunity to join the ranks.
I would advise strongly against opening the Ranger Regiment and RTB to women for the sole purpose of political correctness. What they do day in and day out is very serious business and is not meant for everybody. Hence why if you cannot hack in, you CAN quit.
Just my two cents
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1SG David Lopez
Your two cents is worth a million bucks of common sense. Thank You for your comment. Not many active duty Soldiers want to comment, we know why...
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