Posted on Dec 18, 2014
What do you take off or wear for a military ball?
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i thought I knew. I'm an Audie Murphy Member, NCO of the year (twice), been in for sometime now and I think I am generally squared away. So I decided to quit going about thinking I knew and looked up the regulation. AR 670-1 has me looking in DA Pam 670-1 and the Pam has me looking in the Reg. I am chasing my tail here. there is no definitive answer on what is worn and I am now more confused than I was before I researched it. So, here is my question to you and I don't want "i thinks" or "back in my day". what do you wear when attending an evening ball. I don't have the nice dress mess. I have the old Dress Blues that converted to the ASU. where does it state that we don't wear unit awards or Distinguished Unit Insignia, or Airborne Trimming? maybe I missed it, the 10 times I just researched it. also, if one of you can talk to whoever wrote this reg and tell them that it's a horrible read. maybe both sections in the G1 should match the pam and the reg. don't know why I have to jump from reg to pam for answers. I know your answers will be too late for my ball this evening. so I am going to wear what I used to. no trimming, no DUI on the shoulders and keep the unit awards. if I am ate up, well, i'll be ate up. but for future, I would like to be able to advise appropriately.
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Dress Uniform
Dress Uniform
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Responses: 19
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MSG (Join to see), there is a clear-cut answer in the DA PAM. See Figure 13-19 (Army Dress Blue Uniform, enlisted male) and you'll notice that the DUI isn't authorized for the dress uniform. If you compare that figure to Figure 13-12 (Army Service Uniform, enlisted male), it may be easier for you to see what's different between the service and dress variations.
Before the new 670 came out, this was covered in ALARACT 202/2008: " WHEN THE DRESS BLUE ASU IS WORN FOR EVENING SOCIAL OCCASIONS (AFTER RETREAT) COMMANDERS CAN DIRECT NO HEADGEAR REQUIRED. COMBAT BOOTS AND
ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS, SUCH AS BRASSARDS, MILITARY POLICE (MP) ACCESSORIES AND DISTINCTIVE UNIT INSIGNIA (DUI) ARE NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE DRESS BLUE ASU. ALL OTHER ACCESSORIES AND INSIGNIA AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE CLASS A SERVICE UNIFORM ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR ON THE DRESS BLUE ASU."
Before the new 670 came out, this was covered in ALARACT 202/2008: " WHEN THE DRESS BLUE ASU IS WORN FOR EVENING SOCIAL OCCASIONS (AFTER RETREAT) COMMANDERS CAN DIRECT NO HEADGEAR REQUIRED. COMBAT BOOTS AND
ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS, SUCH AS BRASSARDS, MILITARY POLICE (MP) ACCESSORIES AND DISTINCTIVE UNIT INSIGNIA (DUI) ARE NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE DRESS BLUE ASU. ALL OTHER ACCESSORIES AND INSIGNIA AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE CLASS A SERVICE UNIFORM ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR ON THE DRESS BLUE ASU."
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MSG (Join to see)
Why are there so many regs about the same thing. Question posed by the ACOM CSM panel to us this week when we met with the SMA. Why are we always chasing our tail. I shouldn't have a DA Pam if an AR is there or a adp or adrp or stp fm etc. Thanks for the info. Gonna look it up when I et a breather.
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How about this… Skip the ball and go someplace where you can wear jeans and sneakers!
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SFC Jim Ruether
A Marine told me the ARMY has no balls so I never attended any of them. Maybe that's why I didn't get a Good Conduct Ribbon that last year I was in?
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC Rick H - SGM Lashley, CW3 Chad that was very unnecessary, leaders like you is the reason why Soldiers never wants to ask question cause you make them feel stupid. Shame on you and SFC Rick for entertaining your answer
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CW3 (Join to see)
You may mistake my meaning.
My comment wasn't meant to tear down MSG Ibarra, but to suggest that he quit agonizing over what to wear to the ball...and simply skip the ball altogether.
That's what I'd do...unless they had one killer buffet.
My comment wasn't meant to tear down MSG Ibarra, but to suggest that he quit agonizing over what to wear to the ball...and simply skip the ball altogether.
That's what I'd do...unless they had one killer buffet.
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MSG Ibarra,
The short and long answer is there is not a single spot that lists it all; you have to jump around in the DA PAM because it's not listed in the AR.
21-22, d, 1 covers the DUI, 13-10, b, 3 for headgear and bow tie. What i found interesting is that it still requires the issue white shirt for dress occasions, 13-11 and 13-17.
I hope this also helps those trying to clarify in the future.
The short and long answer is there is not a single spot that lists it all; you have to jump around in the DA PAM because it's not listed in the AR.
21-22, d, 1 covers the DUI, 13-10, b, 3 for headgear and bow tie. What i found interesting is that it still requires the issue white shirt for dress occasions, 13-11 and 13-17.
I hope this also helps those trying to clarify in the future.
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DA Pam 670-1 13-10.
(3) The Army (blue) dress uniform includes the Army blue coat and trousers, a long-sleeved white shirt, and a black four-in-hand tie (before retreat) or a black bow tie (after retreat). When this uniform is worn for evening social occasions (after retreat), headgear is not required. When worn with a black bow tie, the Army blue uniform constitutes a formal uniform and corresponds to a civilian tuxedo. (See figs 13–14 and 13–19.)
The social event, if it is hosted by a military commander, will usually specify the dress on the invitation and usually specify No headgear, even if It starts a little before retreat because of the coat room logistics.
The figures 13-14 and 13-19 show the after retreat version. Unit awards are worn as well as identification and qualification badges. On the enlisted figure, 13-19, it Is depicted without DUI on the shoulder loops. The only time unit awards are modified is when taking a DA photo in that you may only wear those permanently awarded to the SM.
No bloused boots when worn as a dress uniform.
13–11. Accessories
The following accessories are normally worn with the blue uniforms.
a. Belt, black web, with brass tip (see para 20–2b).
b. Boots, combat, black leather (only when bloused trousers are authorized; not authorized with the Army dress uniform) (see para 20–3b).
670-1 19-31 seems straight forward on the background trimming on parachutist and air assault badges. If you aren't assigned anymore, then they are not authorized.
(3) The Army (blue) dress uniform includes the Army blue coat and trousers, a long-sleeved white shirt, and a black four-in-hand tie (before retreat) or a black bow tie (after retreat). When this uniform is worn for evening social occasions (after retreat), headgear is not required. When worn with a black bow tie, the Army blue uniform constitutes a formal uniform and corresponds to a civilian tuxedo. (See figs 13–14 and 13–19.)
The social event, if it is hosted by a military commander, will usually specify the dress on the invitation and usually specify No headgear, even if It starts a little before retreat because of the coat room logistics.
The figures 13-14 and 13-19 show the after retreat version. Unit awards are worn as well as identification and qualification badges. On the enlisted figure, 13-19, it Is depicted without DUI on the shoulder loops. The only time unit awards are modified is when taking a DA photo in that you may only wear those permanently awarded to the SM.
No bloused boots when worn as a dress uniform.
13–11. Accessories
The following accessories are normally worn with the blue uniforms.
a. Belt, black web, with brass tip (see para 20–2b).
b. Boots, combat, black leather (only when bloused trousers are authorized; not authorized with the Army dress uniform) (see para 20–3b).
670-1 19-31 seems straight forward on the background trimming on parachutist and air assault badges. If you aren't assigned anymore, then they are not authorized.
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Wait a minute here... your claiming to be a MSG., with the U.S. Army I presume, then you claim to be an Audie Murphy member (i think is a slap in the face to the real Audi Murphy), you also claim to be NCO of the year (twice))? When did you find time to do your job as an NCO? Finally, you never take anything off or wear anything in which you are not authorized- don't want to be embellishing here!
If this is a Post function, the Post CSM will put out the CGs guidance as to uniform. AR 670-1 which you should already understand should be a good guide for you the rest of the way. One question there MSG? If you are unfamiliar with this stuff, how do you lead your troops? Rock Steady.. HOOAH
If this is a Post function, the Post CSM will put out the CGs guidance as to uniform. AR 670-1 which you should already understand should be a good guide for you the rest of the way. One question there MSG? If you are unfamiliar with this stuff, how do you lead your troops? Rock Steady.. HOOAH
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MSG (Join to see)
ive heard of these. but I don't wear pizzazz. I take off my top and break dance to get attention. lol
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CW2 (Join to see)
Those are with dress mess, not the modified ASU. Still not technically authorized but by the time the coat comes off the booze has been a-flowin!
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MSG (Join to see)
I actually think SGT (Join to see) probably gave the best answer BUT the beauty of the confusion in the Regs. is that whatever you decided to wear was probably right. No one was going to question you Top and if someone did, it was only because they were even more confused than you. Top Ibarra was wearing his medals upside down, oh shit mine must be wrong then? The only thing that actually stays the same is that everything changes.
I actually think SGT (Join to see) probably gave the best answer BUT the beauty of the confusion in the Regs. is that whatever you decided to wear was probably right. No one was going to question you Top and if someone did, it was only because they were even more confused than you. Top Ibarra was wearing his medals upside down, oh shit mine must be wrong then? The only thing that actually stays the same is that everything changes.
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Best to ask another Senior NCO in the unit for guidance. If he's wrong at least the two of you will match.
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The AR provides the policy guidance for wearing the uniform. The DA Pam provides the procedures for wearing the uniform. It was nice when there was one AR 670-1 that covered both. I am not sure why the Army made it more complicated. But a quick guide is that the AR tells when to wear each uniform. The DA Pam tells how to wear the uniform. If you want to know where badges and insignia go, it is the DA Pam. It is still confusing.
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MSG (Join to see) running to a morning meeting I hope this website helps a little in your search for proper wear.
http://www.army.mil/asu/index.html
http://www.army.mil/asu/index.html
United States Army Service Uniform
The Army Service Uniform (ASU) will be in effect as of June 14, 2008. The ASU development and transition is part of the Army’s continued efforts to streamline its uniforms. The transition to the ASU will eliminate the need for the numerous Army uniforms and provide one simple option with three versions.
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MSG (Join to see)
this is great. but it doesn't answer the question I have. or I still cant figure it out. I am clicking on the low res and high res photos, but it says that website doesn't exist. the uniform that the officer is wearing, depicts unit awards. but I don't know if those are his, or the unit he is assigned to. he isn't airborne, so no trimming is avail. and I see no DUI. thanks for the heads up though, brother.
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SPC Christopher Smith
MSG (Join to see) I looked through the Alarct in section 11 it seems to cover what is to be worn, doesn't seem to matter if you are in neck tie or bow tie.
http://www.army.mil/asu/alaract.html
http://www.army.mil/asu/alaract.html
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