Posted on Apr 20, 2014
What do you think of these requirements for promotion to Sergeant (E-5)?
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Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?<div><br></div><div>In order to be promoted to E5 you should have:<br></div><div><div>- Completed SSD1<br></div><div>- Graduated from WLC</div><div>- Have a minimum of 70% in each event on APFT for 2 consecutive times </div><div>- Weapon qualified at 32 and above 2 consecutive times</div><div>- Attended as minimum soldier of the quarter on a BN or higher level and won. </div></div>
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 50
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I agree with all of the following except the last one. Winning boards doesn't make you a leader it proves you can retain what you have read which is a great attribute for a leader, but can you apply it when it counts. I would replace that with must have held a leadership position for 6mo or more; which would be a better measurement of leadership skills and ability then winning a board.
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I understand what your trying to do, but you really can't measure leadership ability, because it's intangable. Leadership is observed and if those above you feel that you can be on their level based on your capacity then, in my opinion, you should be promoted.
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I agree to most of that. I am not a big believer in the APFT. It is good for measuring if you are fit, but not the most accurate. Some people maybe runners and be able to crank out situps and the 2-mile, but only get 65 points in the pushups. I have seen people that are very able to conduct aerobic activity, but are not runners, or are short distance (400m or less) runners. It's hard to use a flawed test for the basis of promotion.
I have seem some people stating having a standard for all, but certain groups have different standards. I am more on the thought that an MOS should determine the standards. If you are a sniper, your shooting may be more important than fitness. If you are dismounted, fitness is likely more important than shooting.
The standards listed above seem great for 11 series, but not sure about why a 35, 25, 74, or 92 series would need to meet to promote. Some MOSs would have no NCOs if this were implemented across the board.
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SGT Shaul Funt
Sir,
Other than maneuver MOSs; what should be the minimum requirements for promotion ?
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CPT (Join to see)
I honestly can't say. I think they should all be different. Some MOSs enter the wire, but only leave when they are on their way for R&R or coming back home. I can't generalize, as people like doctors are very unlikely to be out on patrol, but medics are likely to be. I think some of it should come down to what type of unit you are assigned, as well.
The minimums they have seem adequate, but to help with what you are talking about, maybe have two separate tracks in the support MOSs; one for maneuver units and one for support unit Soldiers.
What some of you propose would exclude people that are great leaders, are very competent in their MOS, but lack PT, even though they meet or beat the minimums. You may chase off leaders that care and replace them with leaders that aren't really leaders.
This is a very complex problem. There are many things that have to be considered. I'm sure there is a way to formulate promotion requirements to get the best of both. At the end of the day, being an effective leader must be the most important part.
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SGT Michael Igel
The other problem is/would be how the point system works too. If "your" unit, say a hospital unit with medics, has one standard compared to a medic in an infantry line unit. Well we know who will probably get promoted faster. Again, like many have said, it is hard to come up with an all round "perfect" system.
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Sounds awesome, minus the "winning" of the board as opposed to having attended (and done well).
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Funt while that does seem a bit tough typically speaking when the standard is raised, there is struggle and then people meet the new standard. It is a different time in the Army we are cutting troops and only wish to retain the best. Lots of Soldiers think that high APFT is a bad way to judge a good Soldier, I disagree it's the one thing that is solely on the individual.
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Disagree...Soldiers aren't promoted to E5, but SGT.
Other than the pay grade piece, I'd personally have no issue with this...but would it be an Army standard or unit standard?
Other than the pay grade piece, I'd personally have no issue with this...but would it be an Army standard or unit standard?
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SGT Shaul Funt
MSG,
Thanks for the correction.
We can start with a unit standard, for evaluation and the sky is limit after that.
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Yes I agree, but not completely, some of the scores for shooting maybe changed and the board is just about remembering stuff. I have seen great Soldiers that would be outstanding Junior NCO's, but they cant perform on boards. But yes for the most part I would agree with your statement!
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Ok, so since no one really wants to bite the bullet and be the bad guy here, I'll do it to save you from the biggest kick in the a$$ from IG. The US Army, The Big A, the green machine itself has spent hundreds of thousand of dollars, man hours, and god knows how much rank deciding what the criteria for promotion to SGT are. Who in the name of General Patton's short and curlies are you to decide that you know better than Army G1 what is required for someone to become a SGT? This is the same nonsense that I have seen over and over again with units trying to put out things like "You are going to be flagged if you don't have a 270 PT Score" or "You can only go to sick call if you tell us 24hrs in advance." Look folks, everyone and their brother things that can do it better, smarter, stronger, or whatever than "the standard." I'm going to give you a fair warning, if you hold a soldier that meets "Army standard" back from promotion because of some imaginary standard that you have made up, they have every right to file an IG or god forbid a Congressional. If that happens, you better hope that someone who has Command authority is the one that put the policy in place.
There are some grey areas when it come to recommending a Soldier to the board, but again you need to take guidance from your CDR and CSM. If you as a supervisor enact all these extra little things, what happens when SPC Snuffy from the motorpool who has a 181 PT score, scored 27 at the range, and doesn't know what SMoQ stands for goes to the promotion board and gets recommended? Now your troop has a very well founded complaint and you will have to stand in front of someone and answer the question of why you held that troop back.
There are some grey areas when it come to recommending a Soldier to the board, but again you need to take guidance from your CDR and CSM. If you as a supervisor enact all these extra little things, what happens when SPC Snuffy from the motorpool who has a 181 PT score, scored 27 at the range, and doesn't know what SMoQ stands for goes to the promotion board and gets recommended? Now your troop has a very well founded complaint and you will have to stand in front of someone and answer the question of why you held that troop back.
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I neither agree or disagree. Anyone can click, click, click thru ssd's and correspondance courses. Wlc is a school for e5's. Not a requirement to get promoted to e5. Granted it gives you a good majority of promotion points. Its so an e5 can go to alc to get their e6 and so on with slc for e7. Same with pt score. Passing is 60% in each event. Doesnt mean you shouldnt push yourself. Often times if you do well at pt or weapons qual. tho your more likely to be favored above another sm. Sounds more like unit reqirements to go to promotion board. But what about job profiency? You have to know your job to be able to lead others. My 2 cents.
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I like most of them, and would add bringing back SQT....but these can't be the only requirements. Also, in a Combat arms unit you'd better not be scoring a 210 on your APFT, let alone expect to be promoted. Every Infantry unit I served in had an unwritten requirement of maintaining a 270 or you'd never see a board.
The last one is the one that throws me the most. There are only four BN soldier of the quarter winners per year/per Battalion, meaning it's only possible for 4 out of over 700+ soldiers per year to make SGT. Serious bottleneck.
The last one is the one that throws me the most. There are only four BN soldier of the quarter winners per year/per Battalion, meaning it's only possible for 4 out of over 700+ soldiers per year to make SGT. Serious bottleneck.
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