Posted on Feb 17, 2014

What does your TIS, TIG say about you?

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<div>I have a feeling Im going to strike some nerves! </div><div><br></div>Over the past month or two, especially with the new RCP coming out, I have seen an increase in SGTs (E-5)who have 15-20 yrs TIS complaining. While I am aware that not all situations are the same, I have to ask why are you still an E5 after so many years?<div><br></div><div>Most of the cases were SMs complaining that they could not make points. Many said that they had never been injured, demoted, flagged, or any adverse action. How is it possible, assuming they are good soldiers as they claim, to go 15- 20 years and not advance past E5?  <br></div><div><br></div><div>We have so many ways of "judging" good SMs by their accomplishments on paper. Is it safe to assume that these NCOs are not good NCOs? Again I know this is a case by case basis, but if an NCO has no negative action against them why would a good NCO not be promoted one rank in 10 years when the selection criteria is based on your performance and is basically in your hands?</div><div><br></div><div>With NCO of the month boards being 99% voluntary, deployments now producing points by themselves plus a possible award, weapons and PT individual events, college education an individual event, is this the SMs lack of drive or is it a mentoring/leadership issue? While not entirely up to you ALC is worth a minimum 90 points also. If you cant attend and complete ALC in 10 year stretch are you truly a good NCO?</div><div><br></div><div>My MOS points were 798 before I joined and for a while after I joined. I was always mentored to not look at that number, do what I needed to do as a soldier and separate myself from my peers be the best at my job. If points never dropped I would eventually have 798,  and if they drop lower so be it. I have numerous friends who are fuelers and their points hardly ever drop below 660, yet their drive and determination to be a proficient leader has gotten them promoted. I dont see any MOS where points stay at 798 for 5 years, most dont stay there for even 1 year straight. What is the wrong with these SGT(P) that they cant make points in a 10 year stretch if they have no negative actions or physical limitations?</div><div><br></div><div>I have always been a little more critical on my peers than my subordinates when it comes to promotions, maybe that is my skewed view on things. I am harder on them because I am them and I know what the struggle is for this rank at this time. Id just like an outside perspective on why we have so many willing to complain, but not willing to do what it takes to advance. </div><div><br></div><div>* I must point out that MOST of the SMs complaining were close to retirement/ETS or already had retired or ETSd, so they are not actually affected by the new RCP or the old, but were complaining its not fair for good NCOs that just cant make points*</div><div><br></div><div>If it is not already clear, lol, I dont think there is any excuse for a healthy NCO with no adverse action to not make points after 10-15 years TIG as a SGT!</div><div><br></div><div>FMSA, Id be interested to hear both sides, the ones who think RCP is unfair to certain NCOs and why, also the ones who agree there is no excuse to not progress in a semi central selection rank at least once in 15-20 years.</div>

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Promotions

Edited 10 y ago

Posted 10 y ago

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1SG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

SGT Blackburn,

I will go ahead and be the one to agree with you. A lot of people want to talk about how high points are and how many senior positions are open. That may be true but people always leave. They retire, they ETS, they get kicked out for misconduct or they get QMP out. If you place yourself in the right position you should not hold E4 or E5 for 10-15 years. My MOS also has high points, my MOS is also a small MOS with less slots than others. That is why I tracked the trend report and ensured that I was the top guy in my MOS. The month I got promoted to SSG I knew either one of two things was going to happen. Either no one was getting picked up or I was. Because I had the most points. Sure enough they promoted 1 that month. It was me.

As a SSG that is not chasing points any more I just attended the BN NCO of the quarter board because it was not important to any of the E5s in my company. All promotable, all over 8 years TIS, all complain about not getting promoted, and none of them go to the board, take more than one PT test every 6 months or go to the range to get a better score.

Yes some Soldiers have done everything they possibly can to get promoted and the stars just don't align for them. They are the minority; the majority of Soldiers with huge TIS/TIG just don't want to put in the work to get promoted. They just want to complain and hope things work out for them.

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SSG (Join to see)

Edited 10 y ago

Posted 10 y ago

Mine probably raises questions about why I have been in so long, and still a SSG. I enjoyed my time as an E-1 thru E-4. Once I made SGT, I endured a 10 yr divorce which took place throughout 3 deployments and cost me wayyy too much money. Once I was able to get passed that I was able to focus on my career and made my way up to SSG. When I was on the trail I was the VICTIM of a B.S. complaint by a PVT and received a bad NCOER for it but not to mention my 1SG was a bit on the racist side and as the acting BN CSM he pushed it right up thru BDE... smh. So, here I am still a SSG. My performance doesn't reflect why I am still a SSG with my TIS/ TIG because I have had to go thru my own ordeals while trudging along... oh well, We shall see what happens

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SGT (Join to see)

10 y

That is why the promotion system relies on Senior NCOs to recommend soldiers to the promotion board. It actually brings up another question.

Are Senior NCOs really recommending the right soldiers for promotion.

As a SGT I have never held a SGT slot. I was in a SSG slot as a SPC(P) and SGT then I PCSd to a SSG slot.

My MSG when I first became eligible for the board said NO. I just so happen to be filling in for my SFC who was on leave. So I was at the weekly meeting for SFCs with the MSG. He looked me dead in the eye and said no, he needs more experience. My point is my MSG did not believe I was ready for the P board, even though I have the knowledge and responsibility of the position already and execute the job daily. I respect him for his decision even though I felt at the time I was ready, now a few months down the road, I understand his decision and the fact I needed a little more experience.

The real question is are all Senior NCOs doing this. On paper there was no reason whatsoever for me to not go to the board. In reality a seasoned MSG made the right choice. Im inclined to say this is almost never the case throughout the Army if it looks good on paper promote seems to be the mentality.

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SGT(P) (Join to see)

10 y

You are so right, I've seen this time and time again. I've seen so many not ready or not deserving be sent, while those that were ready were given BS excuses, like you were. It's sad when you keep seeing the same one recommended over and over again because they keep getting knocked back down (DUI, spouse abuse, etc) yet when you try to recommend one of your high performing SPCs you are told "no"

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SSG(P) (Join to see)

10 y

SSG Broadbent:

I am guessing you are talking about CLI (formerly called ALI) for SGT/SSG STAR MOS'. If that's what you are talking about, then I agree. Pinning stripes on someone JUST because they have 2 years TIS is a little short-sighted.

I also think there should be a minimum age for being a NCO. While this may be an exception, what happens when you have an "older" SPC (perhaps coming in after a break in service) being counseled on some issue by a very young SGT with very little life experience? How is someone who is single and perhaps 19 years old going to tell someone who is in their 30s and married with kids anything about life issues (assuming the older SPC is managing his finances and family well)? Seems kind of silly, right? Again, maybe this is just me, but the "maturity light" didn't go on until age 23. Even though I am almost 44, I still discover or learn something new about Life or the Army each day. Or maybe I'm just turning into a grumpy old man...

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SSG (Join to see)

10 y

No, I am not talking about CLI or ALI. I am talking about joe schmoe who was a PFC, promoted to SPC, lateral to CPL, then the unit needed SGT's as TC's in their convoy so they send CPL so and so to the board to fill that SGT slot. I have seen it numerous times. I also just do not like NCO's who have 2-3 years TIS. I personally do not think they have enough experience. Some people yeah they can handle it, but for the most part it is usually just because a unit needed a slot filled and that person could answer questions in a board. And no, I am not the only person who thinks this way. Could I be wrong, sure, that is just my opinion. And with what I have seen since the war and "gimme" promotions started, I feel the opinion is justified.<br>

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1SG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

outstanding!! SSounds like you've sat in a proponent briefing our two. Yes, the math works all the way down. There are only SO MANY OF EACH RANK , private to sgm, at one time. Points can be points all day, but if they're are no authorizations, DA can't simply make new ones (adjust the points, so to say).. those are set by congress based off budget. You can disagree all day, but I've worked the job, and am very familiar with how promotions work. Why do you think some ppl ARE MAXED OUT ON POINTS BUT NEVER GET PROMOTED? ,I know some of these guys..and its usually the smaller MOSs that are more greatly affected...but at the end of the day, every rank is affected. And I.never said it was everyone that isn't getting promoted....some are lazy. But until I worked that job and got an understanding of how big army decodes who and how many will get promoted and why...I used to think it was just points too . But we learn and grow as we work different positions and levels.

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