Posted on Feb 9, 2016
What holds more weight an E-5 in a E-6 position or a E-5 with more time in grade? Also should the more senior E-5 be in the E-6 position?
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Posted 10 y ago
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Whoever can do the job best should be in the positions, regardless of time in rank. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way with our maze of bureaucratic rules. There is a saying that I think our military needs to embrace a bit more.
"In combat the one in charge is the one with the loudest voice and best plan."
"In combat the one in charge is the one with the loudest voice and best plan."
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The first question is very subjective.
Weight in eyes of others or yourself? What holds weight the most is who are the soldiers going to for answers and assistance, who do they count on in the clutch moment, who do they value and respect the opinion from?
As for the second TIG counts sometimes but when it comes to a duty position it is only a partial requirement. See answer to question above that is the one that deserves the opportunity to be in the position. (That does not mean the soldier wants to be in it)
Weight in eyes of others or yourself? What holds weight the most is who are the soldiers going to for answers and assistance, who do they count on in the clutch moment, who do they value and respect the opinion from?
As for the second TIG counts sometimes but when it comes to a duty position it is only a partial requirement. See answer to question above that is the one that deserves the opportunity to be in the position. (That does not mean the soldier wants to be in it)
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I think everyone knows that the textbook answer is the correct one in this case. Position over rank. Time in grade is irrelavent. I would even go so far as to say that rank is irrelavent. Sometimes the right man for the job does not have the rank. This is something Special Operations teams tend to do better than anyone. Whomever the best soldier for the job is, (or the SME) is the one leading that particular operation of training.
That being said, when I was a promotable SGT I got loaned to another platoon and placed in a squad ran by a freshly promoted SGT. The PSG asked if I was fine with that since I would be there less than a month. Of course I had no problem with this, and did everything I could to help that young squad leader. The PSG ended up going to the 1SG to fight to keep me, and that SGT and I ended up switching roles when my move became permanent.
I believe I learned as much from that man as he did me. We had an excellent working relationship and developed a great squad.
That being said, when I was a promotable SGT I got loaned to another platoon and placed in a squad ran by a freshly promoted SGT. The PSG asked if I was fine with that since I would be there less than a month. Of course I had no problem with this, and did everything I could to help that young squad leader. The PSG ended up going to the 1SG to fight to keep me, and that SGT and I ended up switching roles when my move became permanent.
I believe I learned as much from that man as he did me. We had an excellent working relationship and developed a great squad.
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SSG (Join to see)
Yeah I agree man. Most of the positions I held while I was in were above my pay grade.
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When evaluating "weight" of those of equal rank, billet is the trump card.
I'd be asking why that Sgt with more TIG isn't filling the billet.
I'd be asking why that Sgt with more TIG isn't filling the billet.
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These are two great questions and I'd like to add a third...just WHERE will this weight be carried, because from where I'm sitting, it doesn't mean Jack Bingo outside of your shop or your section. You could be holding down a 1SG slot back at your shop, but if I see you at the PX and you don't even have the same rocker that I'm wearing, then your little feelings are gonna get hurt if you try to demand that type of respect from me. I'm not trying to be difficult and I think it's great that your shop poses that kind of special trust and confidence in your fidelity and abilities, but riddle me THIS, Batman...if they REALLY had that much faith in you, then why won't they PAY you as such?! I've never seen ANYONE go into the PX or the Class 6 and walk out with ANYTHING that was paid for with a job slot, and not the MONEY that comes from holding that job slot...think about it.
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Well to find the answer I turned to Regulation, and the way I processed it was can you rate the other E-5, as an E-6 you would be responsible for rating subordinate NCO's so regardless of the answers here can you rate that other NCO if he has more TIG?? For that you need to refer to AR 623-205 section II rating chain development and maintenance 2-4 a is the paragraph you need to read, generally speaking the answer is going to be NO you can not, but there are exceptions, from reading it I do not think you fall into one of those so regardless of position on paper I would say he is senior.. On a side note I was an NCO on AD and in the NG, regardless of semantics of TIG we always treated each other as equals, because you are.
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I have seen E5 who worked better and knew better then an E6. I have seen E5 and E6 who were great. What makes the difference is the go getter attitude and maturity. The mindset of growing each day.
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It's obvious to me that the unit feels the SGT with less TIG is more competent to hold the SSG position or the senior ranking E-5 would hold the position. You don't need to respect the person in my opinion but you must respect the position the individual holds.
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That is a good question. Unless the E-5 in the E-6 position is in charge of the other E-5 then I would go with the senior time in grade E-5 holding more weight. Typically order of merit is by senior ranking, more time in grade, if equal time in grade then time in service. Think about it as a war situation the officer is shot, the PLT SGT is shot leaving an E-5 in a higher billet posed against a senior time in grade E-5 now a betting man would go with knowledge and experience over a billet holding position. Example - I had two E-7s in the same platoon. the junior was the PLT SGT, the Senior was the Ammunition expert (each PLT rated a senior ammo inspector) so now one is in charge of people and one is the knowledge base of the job. Which do you do with? nd yes there is a reason the senior was not the PLT SGT, he had already filled that role for a few years.
I can take it a step further - I had a brand new 2LT and a couple of CW2s in my company. Being short handed on officers I made one of the CW2s the Company XO. He was the junior of the two warrant officers, and by rank junior to a 2LT. But either warrant had way more knowledge to help me run a company, (I also wanted the 2LT to have PLT LDR time). Personality of the junior warrant was more of a bull dog. I had a great 1SG but he and I were both fairly mellow and I wanted to offset that with the bull dog. Now the senior CW2 works for a 2-Star staff and the Junior is still the XO. That 2LT is now a 1LT and the Company Commander as I have moved on myself.
There are many reasons a senior E-5 may not be holding the E-6 position so without knowing the story I would go with TIG.
I can take it a step further - I had a brand new 2LT and a couple of CW2s in my company. Being short handed on officers I made one of the CW2s the Company XO. He was the junior of the two warrant officers, and by rank junior to a 2LT. But either warrant had way more knowledge to help me run a company, (I also wanted the 2LT to have PLT LDR time). Personality of the junior warrant was more of a bull dog. I had a great 1SG but he and I were both fairly mellow and I wanted to offset that with the bull dog. Now the senior CW2 works for a 2-Star staff and the Junior is still the XO. That 2LT is now a 1LT and the Company Commander as I have moved on myself.
There are many reasons a senior E-5 may not be holding the E-6 position so without knowing the story I would go with TIG.
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