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I have seen leaders come and go. I have seen poor leadership. But when will they actually do something about the toxic leaders? I am not talking about people we don't care for or don't like how they do things. I am talking about commanders who stand in front of their company and tell them they aren't there for them, they are only there for themselves. The ones that ignore soldiers profiles and tell them they have to break the profile because they told them to do it. I have seen a lot of talk but in 11 years haven't seen anyone removed, at any rank, due to this issue. I do however see a lot of covering up and excuses from all the way up to post CSM. How is this being dealt with?
Toxic Leadership
Leadership
Accountability
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 8
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SGT Philip Popa, I have not seen what you describe. If I did, and if there was nothing done about it, I guess two viable options would be the chain of command (above the toxic commander) and the IG. There may be other ways to address the situation as well.
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SGT Philip Popa
Thanks. If interested in meeting one I will be glad to tell you. He is commander of my wife's unit. I know that sounds bad but sometimes she hates me LOL. This unit contains what happens internally. I know that is the place to start, but they are still fighting with a SSG. to keep her from taking complaints from the E5 and below to their battalion commander. Just wondering if there was anything I could do to help. They have new soldiers that have been there less than a month that want out. And senior NCOs that can't wait to get out instead of staying in.
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SPC Angel Guma
Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, this is just how it is. The unit will have to keep withering and decaying, until there is a monumental screw up that exposes the toxic leader.
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We all run into toxic leadership at some point in our careers. This kind of leadership creates a self-perpetuating cycle that has harmful and long-lasting effects on morale, productivity, and retention of quality personnel. It can also affect readiness if a unit comes apart at the seams which affects careers. I have seen battalions that took two command tenures to fix the harm. How you approach this depends on the level of unit you're at (platoon, company, battalion, etc.). This eventually can't help but be detected by the next higher levels of command. Sometimes that is enough. Bringing this up with a neutral agent such as the Chaplain might help start turning things around. Sometimes discreet use of the chain of command is needed. You have to avoid as much harm as possible to yourself and your soldiers. Unfortunately, it sometimes means waiting out the bad apple until he / she is replaced. I had a Battalion Commander who was an alcoholic and expected his officers to drink heavily with him. Those of us who didn't had to deal with his ire. His dad had been a 4-star general and he was a decorated Viet Nam veteran. There was nothing else to do, but stay out of his sights and remember the leadership style as something NEVER to emulate.
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SGT Philip Popa
Thank you sir. As far as time this commander was just put in command. So that is going to be some time. As far as the company goes one soldier that is getting out says it has been like this for the 4 years he has been there. So I have to wonder how long or how far this goes. Will try and talk to the chaplain. I currently hold some letters that need to go to battalion, but the immediate chain of command is trying to stop anything to keep it from going there. Besides the fact that all of the soldiers are afraid of what outcome this will provide for them. Most won't say what has gone on for fear it will come back on them. They are just waiting till they can get out. A few has gone as far as to do drugs to test hot so they can get out.
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LTC Martin Metz
I hate hearing things like this! If it's to the point that folks are trying to ruin their future life by testing hot, the conditions need to be reported somehow. No one should feel so desperate that they have to something like that (or worse). That's why I recommended the Chaplain or other safe contact. I don't know of any completely safe and sure way, but there are always other options. If the Bn XO is trustworthy, you might try him or her as well. The XO is not officially in the chain of command, but is obviously engaged, influential, and on talking terms with the Bn Cdr and CSM. Quite likely he is already aware of situations and personalities. Be respectful and factual. When I was a company commander, the Bn XO was involved with helping to break up a usury scheme that came to light after several enlisted folks had had enough. You want to work within the system if at all possible. You can also request to see the IG. You don't have to say why. However, the IG will ask what was done within normal channels and may defer until that has happened. This also reveals you to the company commander who is the problem. Informally, NCOs may want to work offline with the 1SG on this as well. Does anyone else on Rally Point have any suggestions on how NCOs can circle the wagons and effectively deal with this?
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SSG Greg Miech
Battalion came back from the Sinai in 82. 150 field grade Art 15 that week. They were lined up outside the Battalion Headquarters. One Army Achievement medal for an enlisted in the battalion. No schools for enlisted other than Air Assault. When the unit was cleared out of for a COHORT over 300 soldiers were lined up before midnight to sign out of the battalion to get out for PCS leave. I left a light on once and had 45 days "Volunteer for the First Sergeant Duty". Boots not like glass? Very large trash bag given to you to fill with aluminum cans before the next day. Scrap metal went to the company MWR fund which was over $20K. Intimidation leadership from top had an influence on this.
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There will always be bad people in leadership positions. I think part of this is caused by the rapid pace that many leaders have been promoted at. Operational necessity will drive the push to fill vacancies, but when the standards are reduced you get a lower quality leader as a result unless you somehow get lucky and find one that is good naturally. I think the other part of it is the professional development of leaders. Much of this is driven on the army publication (I can't remember the number) and from what I remember of it is quite limited in its approach. There are literally volumes of great work in management theory available but I doubt much of this will be looked at due to the length of the leadership courses. Someone can get a PhD in Management and still not even scratch the surface on what is out there.
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Well, back in the 2009-2010 timeframe, toxic leadership was promoted to COL, put in command of the 398th Financial Management Support Center, and mobilized to deploy to Afghanistan. It pretty much ruined the unit for years.
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What about the Toxic Solders? The ones that push the buttons of leaders, get away with things, abuse the system with BS profiles that stop on Friday/s? Other soldiers allowing this to occur and does not help. Leader helps and gets stabbed in the back and spends 90% of the time on the bad soldiers verses helping the others. An NCO at times uses the same techniques that he experienced as well. And no most senior NCOs do not teach, develop leaders other than to say read the Leadership FM. Honestly the best leadership I learned was from Extreme Leadership. The idea of blaming the leader only goes so far as long as the soldier can be trained/counseled can be replaced immediately. However the NCO has to have his ducks in a row as well.
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Unfortunately I think all the Army has nowadays is toxic Leadership. My last few months in I experienced a lot of it. An E-7 was bullying on of my Soldiers and because the First Sergeant and all of the Platoon Sergeant are all friends they were able to get away with it.
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