Posted on Jun 21, 2016
What is the best way to lead a new soldier who is uncertain if they even want to be in the army?
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PVT (Join to see) ,
As I am sure that my response will echo many of who have already posted. However, from my perspective with regards to your circumstance as this really is a challenging, yet sensitive issue for all leaders who posses empathy and want nothing less than the best for their Soldiers/team members. Before deciding, ensure that you do a full circle perspective before placing any type of judgement. First and foremost, if your Soldier has the definitive mindset that they are ETSing with no signs of compromise or negotiation, do not scoff at the decision. I say this because I have seen it far too many times during my 17 years where both peers and leaders will scoff at a Soldier's decision for wanting to exit military service coupled with the assumption that will not amount to anything in their next chapter; as if the military is the be all, end all. However, if the Soldier is uncertain on their decision, this is the opportunity to ground them back towards memory lane to the civilian on the street that walked into the Recruiting station looking for a change. What I mean is this: When most Soldiers join their respective military branch, it normally comes with a set of desires aimed towards personal goal achievement; albeit money for college, embark on their own independent career, provide for their family, and a wide array of other decisions. This is the time to gage the posture of that Soldier and their individual goals. This normally leads to open ended, fact finding questions such as "Why did you join the Army?" The Soldier will reply because of this reason...From there you ask, "Have you accomplished those personal goals that you set forth thus far?" Over 90% of the time, the answer is no. This serves as an opportunity for you to get them refocused on why they joined, and to use the next reenlistment opportunity as a chance to achieve those goals. After that option, then they can make a solid decision on continuing to serve or walk away. At least this will give them a peace of mind towards the next decision and ultimately prepare them for both their current career and the next chapter. Sorry for being long winded but I have seen this scenario play out too many times in which I both take to heart and have kept them to not only stay on the team and continue to provide their critical contribution factor, but to keep them honest towards their personal goals.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL BLANKET STRATEGY, AS SOLDIERS AND RESPONSES WILL VARY!!
Hope this helps and best of luck!
As I am sure that my response will echo many of who have already posted. However, from my perspective with regards to your circumstance as this really is a challenging, yet sensitive issue for all leaders who posses empathy and want nothing less than the best for their Soldiers/team members. Before deciding, ensure that you do a full circle perspective before placing any type of judgement. First and foremost, if your Soldier has the definitive mindset that they are ETSing with no signs of compromise or negotiation, do not scoff at the decision. I say this because I have seen it far too many times during my 17 years where both peers and leaders will scoff at a Soldier's decision for wanting to exit military service coupled with the assumption that will not amount to anything in their next chapter; as if the military is the be all, end all. However, if the Soldier is uncertain on their decision, this is the opportunity to ground them back towards memory lane to the civilian on the street that walked into the Recruiting station looking for a change. What I mean is this: When most Soldiers join their respective military branch, it normally comes with a set of desires aimed towards personal goal achievement; albeit money for college, embark on their own independent career, provide for their family, and a wide array of other decisions. This is the time to gage the posture of that Soldier and their individual goals. This normally leads to open ended, fact finding questions such as "Why did you join the Army?" The Soldier will reply because of this reason...From there you ask, "Have you accomplished those personal goals that you set forth thus far?" Over 90% of the time, the answer is no. This serves as an opportunity for you to get them refocused on why they joined, and to use the next reenlistment opportunity as a chance to achieve those goals. After that option, then they can make a solid decision on continuing to serve or walk away. At least this will give them a peace of mind towards the next decision and ultimately prepare them for both their current career and the next chapter. Sorry for being long winded but I have seen this scenario play out too many times in which I both take to heart and have kept them to not only stay on the team and continue to provide their critical contribution factor, but to keep them honest towards their personal goals.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL BLANKET STRATEGY, AS SOLDIERS AND RESPONSES WILL VARY!!
Hope this helps and best of luck!
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SPC Michael Mead
SGT Lee Hopkins - That echoes the experience I had. Only I was just a peacetime, stateside short-timer. Had enough of the stateside bullshit, decided against giving the Army a second chance and ets'ed after one hitch.
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SPC Michael Mead
SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM - "Courting and gestures?" Is that really what you call it?
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SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM
SPC Michael Mead -Yes, it is nothing more than a polite explanation for support my friend.
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SPC (Join to see)
Literally the only answer and honestly the best answer. It's a lot closer to one size fits all than you think, outside of someone being irrational. It's something I've used towards peers and subordinates alike
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I think leading by example is the best way. Give them positive acknowledgement for an assigned task well done. Not everyone will be cut out for Army life but don't give up on a Soldier too soon.
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MSG (Join to see)
also think of this sm as your child, you dont want harm to come to them, you want the best, but in the end as a young adult they have the descision, you can give them the info and guidence thats all you can do
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Sgt (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - Leading by example is one part of leadership. You train hard for war to prepare for the physical hardships that you will encounter. The mental aspect is different, and worse because war is hell. All of us changed forever based on the experiences we endured.
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GySgt Efrain Vazquez
In the Marine Corps they get weeded out at boot camp. My 20+ years in the Corps never ran into a Marine that wasn't proud and motivated to serve. Yeah they complained but when it hit the fan you can count on each other.
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TSgt Kenneth Hopkins
Enlisted in '46 for three years, couple of months before discharge got married to my
Childhood sweetheart who was a coast guard service brat. She wanted me to get out
I wanted to stay in but took my discharge. Un beknownest to her I enlisted in the reserve,
Korea broke out, I was recalled to a time duty and told her I was staying in.
I stayed until 1967 and we were both proud of those twenty one years..yes, I was proud of every day I served....by the way, retired as a T Sgt....
Childhood sweetheart who was a coast guard service brat. She wanted me to get out
I wanted to stay in but took my discharge. Un beknownest to her I enlisted in the reserve,
Korea broke out, I was recalled to a time duty and told her I was staying in.
I stayed until 1967 and we were both proud of those twenty one years..yes, I was proud of every day I served....by the way, retired as a T Sgt....
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Something I see too often which leads to soldiers wanting out is the army either not providing opportunities that should be available or administrative errors that derail career progression. I've seen a specialist miss the promotion list (who should have been an E5) by 2 day because S1 sat on the paperwork, bonuses that are years overdue, promised schools fall by the wayside due to lack of funding, ect. The army should be a very professional organization that provides soldiers every opportunity to achieve. If the organization is screwing with soldiers financially or in career progression, it's hard as a first line leader to change the perception that the army can't deliver (when honestly the soldier's frustration is warranted.) If the army wants to retain good soldiers and morale, they need to deliver on promises.
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SPC (Join to see)
This is exactly why I left the national guard, I was promised schools, and a week before going for the plug pulled, I was slotted twice for wlc and got that pulled, I broke my contract after 3 years in and went active, I was told I couldn't keep my 11B mos unless I was airborne so I had to take 88m if I wanted to join active, so back to tradoc I go, we will see how this goes I may be done also if the same thing happens
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PFC (Join to see)
This has to be the most realistic post on this subject. You actually understand how difficult it can be for different folks who are trying to succeed in something but it seems like every door is closing and they are just left stuck and trapped. I know all too well.
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SPC Jeremy Morgan
There's one factor that you forgot to mention and it's a real morale killer. Getting slotted for a school and a NCO from another company finds out and wants that slot for one of his guys, and because you're not 11B and the other guy is, you get bumped from the slot. This is also a byproduct of another problem. I was an 88M1P in an infantry regiment, so promotions that should have came through are suppressed by the command because they afraid of losing someone in your MOS because they only have so many slots for that MOS and they're not sure if they'd get another one to replace you. My squad leader tried to get me promoted to corporal but it was shot down by the battalion commander because there weren't any slots for an 88M1P NCO and they'd lose me.
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I mean this is the case for most of us lower enlisted. No room to progress we are stuck. As to why less and less go to the board or put in that extra effort I've been in 3 years now and my points dropped to 686. And the rest of the time maxed out. A lot of people will argue that's obtainable but with no college and the new promotion system. This discourages a lot of us. And that's why we don't want to do it anymore. I love what I do. But I can't stay in a profession that isn't going to be able to progress my life.
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Have you interviewed said soldier? Figure why they joined and where they want to see themselves in 5 years. Then offer two plans. One, the Army route and show where he can be in 5 years. Two, civilian route and show where he can be in 5 years
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1SG (Join to see)
Spc Caspers you took the words right out of my mouth so to speak... as a former Army recruiter, when we had a Future Soldier get cold feet, we normally just had to sit down and talk about why they decided to join in the first place.
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SP5 David Cox
1SG (Join to see) - We see and hear a lot of "my recruiter lied to me" tales of woe, but I have to say that other than 1 slight hiccup (which got straightened out before I signed anything), I got exactly what I was promised. I was promised conputer programming as my MOS, and the recruiter wrote down 74F on the contract. I asked what that was, he explained it was the MOS code (I understand that 74F is now some sort of NBC MOS and the Army no longer has programmers) and that everyone knew what it was. I countered that I didn't know and refused to sign until he spelled it out. He did, with a bit of grumbling, and all worked out. On the flip side though, in Basic I was a platoon leader, and when we got our orders for AIT, one of my troops came to me to complain about going to Infantry School at Ft. Benning. On his contract, it said he was getting training as 11B. I pointed that out, and he said his recruiter had told him that was the code for a demolition specialist, so I guess it works both ways.
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TSgt (Join to see)
I think you missed in this post, this soldier was in it for his college benefits only. He didn't want to work for them anymore and wanted out so he could reap what he though he would get cheaply. It was obvious that he was going to be a one and done enlistment. His staff only showed him what they could do for him, if he didn't want to work for them anymore. For a user of people, this is sometimes the greatest motivation they can be given.
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Before I retired when a service member told me they were done, that they were getting out. I would tell it's ok the military life is not for everyone, but until that day comes do us both a favor don't do anything to get in trouble and keep your options open, you never know what might happen between now and the time you EST.
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My short response is to say, "well, I expect you to fulfill your obligation, until you can ETS. So, shut up, soldier on, and the day you leave, I'll shake your hand and say, 'thank you for your service.' That's better then the alternative."
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CPT Glenn Archer
I would go one step further. Being successful in life, no matter the task, usually means putting forth your best effort, and being there for your friends, co-workers, and team. Any job is a stepping stone to your next. Learn what you can, do your best. When it's time to move on, you will be rewarded with recommendations from supervisors and co-workers who can attest to your work ethic, high values, standards, and positive attitude.
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Gentlemen, I recognize I am not an NCO, but I do have a great amount of respect for the jobs that you do, and the jobs that the NCO's with whom I was affiliated while I served did, with the junior enlisted. Y'all made many officers, including myself, shine!
Any time I reflect on the leadership skills I gained in the military the very first thing I do is pull out the Army values card I earned in basic training and read the values and the Soldier's Code and then I try to live up to it. My last commander in the Reserves told me to carry the Army values card in my pocket. The card stays fashioned within my outdated money clip with all my other cards, licenses, student action card, etc, to this day.
On a side note, I chipped the corner of the Army values card trying to break into my room one night about two years ago after locking myself out.
Any time I reflect on the leadership skills I gained in the military the very first thing I do is pull out the Army values card I earned in basic training and read the values and the Soldier's Code and then I try to live up to it. My last commander in the Reserves told me to carry the Army values card in my pocket. The card stays fashioned within my outdated money clip with all my other cards, licenses, student action card, etc, to this day.
On a side note, I chipped the corner of the Army values card trying to break into my room one night about two years ago after locking myself out.
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SP5 David Cox - Slightly, yes. If I wasn't trying to get back into my residence, it would have very ironic. Nice point. Too funny.
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And this is surprising how? Far too many of our young Soldiers don't understand selfless service and being part of something larger than self.
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SPC Stephen Bobchin
And too many of our senior Soldiers have forgotten how to ensure young Soldiers are properly taken care of. Whether it be housing, awards, schools, or opportunities to progress, I have seen many senior leaders care more about chasing OER/NCOER bullets than making sure Soldiers are taken care of.
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CSM William Bennett If a soldier is in it ONLY for their benefit and not the greater benefit of his team members, then they already have a BAD attitude. Could you change the attitude of a user of people with hugs? I think not. This NCO and his command staff got his attention the only way possible: through his wallet. Its obvious that he was going to be a liability and not the asset his oath promised. Thinking there was nothing anyone could do to him, he was shown different. They just showed him if you want out, here is what we can do to make this happen for you. Plus, if you want to use us for your benefit only and not work for us, then we will show you how the user game is played. They got into his head and gave him a choice: straiten up and fly right, or prepare to hit the silk. And when he PCS'd, it was only right that his gaining unit was aware of his special handling needs, or he would pull the same stunts there.
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CSM William Bennett If a soldier is in it ONLY for their benefit and not the greater benefit of his team members, then they already have a BAD attitude. Could you change the attitude of a user of people with hugs? I think not. This NCO and his command staff got his attention the only way possible: through his wallet. Its obvious that he was going to be a liability and not the asset his oath promised. Thinking there was nothing anyone could do to him, he was shown different. They just showed him if you want out, here is what we can do to make this happen for you. Plus, if you want to use us for your benefit only and not work for us, then we will show you how the user game is played. They got into his head and gave him a choice: straiten up and fly right, or prepare to hit the silk. And when he PCS'd, it was only right that his gaining unit was aware of his special handling needs, or he would pull the same stunts there.
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SGT Leif Lynch
SPC Stephen Bobchin - I completely agree with you on this.. I had very few CSM's in my life who were worth a damn. Most talked a good game, but when you spent enough time around them, you realized they had to of been pretty damn good at writing their own NCOERs. I'd say between the ranks E-7 - E-9 that I encountered, it was 50/50 on if they were any better than the shit bag private or SPC everyone complained about.
I remember when 8570.1 first came down. I was lucky to be in one of the first Sec+ classes on Fort Gordon. When I walked into (the wrong) classroom and sat down, I noticed everyone around me was E-8 and above.. Not one of those shitbags were doing the job. Like I said, this is when 8570.1 first came down, the only people required were the people filling the IASO positions of the time.
I remember when 8570.1 first came down. I was lucky to be in one of the first Sec+ classes on Fort Gordon. When I walked into (the wrong) classroom and sat down, I noticed everyone around me was E-8 and above.. Not one of those shitbags were doing the job. Like I said, this is when 8570.1 first came down, the only people required were the people filling the IASO positions of the time.
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First you need to sit down and open up communications with the Soldier to find out why he or she is second guessing his or her commitment to the Army. There could be some kind of deeper issue that could have a bigger impact on the Soldier's health and well being. "Not wanting to be in the Army" could very well be a smoke screen for something else. As an NCO, if you suspect there could be some other issue, you should immediately bring it to the chain of command for a possible command referral to the appropriate resource. Or, there could be some other kind of personal problem that might be able to be resolved with your assistance. If that is not the case, then perhaps the Soldier is need of some old fashioned mentorship on what it means to hold true to your obligations as a member of the team, and setting goals for yourself. Negativity only reinforces negativity, so be positive and offer help and encouragement, but be firm on your expectations.
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