Posted on Jun 21, 2016
What is the best way to lead a new soldier who is uncertain if they even want to be in the army?
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If you can't handle an issue like this, or you can only lament days gone by, I question your quality as a leader.
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This is a tough question to answer in one try. There are 3 basic groups the enlisted person can fall into.
1 - A person who is brand new to the military and frustrated at trying to get on top of what they need to learn and to fit in with their comrades. This is where a pep talk comes in. Give them the light at the end of the tunnel type of talk. Don't be soft or treat them differently, just let them know that someday they will be the one giving the newbie a hard time.
2 - The person who wants out NOW and doesn't care how they do it as long as they don't end up in jail for too long. Not much you can do with this person. They are always late for muster, uniform is a mess, grooming out of regs etc etc. You talk to them, yell at them, make them scrub the COs car with a toothbrush ... nothing works. They just give you the one finger salute and continue screwing up. All you can do is give them their wish and bust them to parade rest and on out of the military. Don't make it easy on them and remind them that in the civilian world if they act this way they will be homeless because nobody will hire them for long.
3 - The squared away person who has just had enough of the bullshit. They will do their job to the best of their ability but really really have had enough and want out.
This is a no shitter. I was senior E-6 at the command and an E-5 came to me. He was an excellent sailor, worked hard and knew his job. But we had gotten a new command structure pretty much from the top down and his LPO a 7 year wonder Chief was a [fill in the derogatory name of choice]. So he wanted out RIGHT NOW. He wanted to know how he could do it. Totally off the record I told him he would have to do something and stick to it no matter what. Like pretending to be deaf.
Next thing I know he goes to the executive officer and says "I do drugs". The XO was cool and he says "go pee in a cup". Well, he didn't really do drugs so that didn't work. Next he goes to the XO and says "I'm gay" This was in the early 80s and would get you off a sub and out of the Navy REAL fast. Once again, the XO gets him. He dropped his pants and says "prove it". After he stopped gagging the poor sailor had to think up another tactic. So he says he wants to kill the engineering officer. He was off the boat for a week and came back all bummed out. "They didn't believe me".
So I told him if he is sincere he will have to actually DO something, not just say it. So he goes up to the XO again (this was over the period of a few months) and pulls out a joint and lights it. Funny thing was, he never got it near his mouth. Just held it and lit it. XO says "NOW you are out of the Navy." Busted to E-1, loss of all pay and benefits for 90 days. 90 days in the brig. Dishonorable discharge.
I got a letter from him about a year later (just as I was about to get out) and he was working in the TX oil fields and nobody cared he had been kicked out of the Navy. Not only that, after 6 months out, his discharge went to general and he would get an honorable after 2 years if he kept his nose clean. So he won out in the end.
Not saying I recommend this way, but it was interesting to see somebody put so much effort into getting out of the military.
1 - A person who is brand new to the military and frustrated at trying to get on top of what they need to learn and to fit in with their comrades. This is where a pep talk comes in. Give them the light at the end of the tunnel type of talk. Don't be soft or treat them differently, just let them know that someday they will be the one giving the newbie a hard time.
2 - The person who wants out NOW and doesn't care how they do it as long as they don't end up in jail for too long. Not much you can do with this person. They are always late for muster, uniform is a mess, grooming out of regs etc etc. You talk to them, yell at them, make them scrub the COs car with a toothbrush ... nothing works. They just give you the one finger salute and continue screwing up. All you can do is give them their wish and bust them to parade rest and on out of the military. Don't make it easy on them and remind them that in the civilian world if they act this way they will be homeless because nobody will hire them for long.
3 - The squared away person who has just had enough of the bullshit. They will do their job to the best of their ability but really really have had enough and want out.
This is a no shitter. I was senior E-6 at the command and an E-5 came to me. He was an excellent sailor, worked hard and knew his job. But we had gotten a new command structure pretty much from the top down and his LPO a 7 year wonder Chief was a [fill in the derogatory name of choice]. So he wanted out RIGHT NOW. He wanted to know how he could do it. Totally off the record I told him he would have to do something and stick to it no matter what. Like pretending to be deaf.
Next thing I know he goes to the executive officer and says "I do drugs". The XO was cool and he says "go pee in a cup". Well, he didn't really do drugs so that didn't work. Next he goes to the XO and says "I'm gay" This was in the early 80s and would get you off a sub and out of the Navy REAL fast. Once again, the XO gets him. He dropped his pants and says "prove it". After he stopped gagging the poor sailor had to think up another tactic. So he says he wants to kill the engineering officer. He was off the boat for a week and came back all bummed out. "They didn't believe me".
So I told him if he is sincere he will have to actually DO something, not just say it. So he goes up to the XO again (this was over the period of a few months) and pulls out a joint and lights it. Funny thing was, he never got it near his mouth. Just held it and lit it. XO says "NOW you are out of the Navy." Busted to E-1, loss of all pay and benefits for 90 days. 90 days in the brig. Dishonorable discharge.
I got a letter from him about a year later (just as I was about to get out) and he was working in the TX oil fields and nobody cared he had been kicked out of the Navy. Not only that, after 6 months out, his discharge went to general and he would get an honorable after 2 years if he kept his nose clean. So he won out in the end.
Not saying I recommend this way, but it was interesting to see somebody put so much effort into getting out of the military.
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It doesn't matter what his motivation is at all. The only important thing is the quality of his work. He can easily be replaced and lose his scholarship. That is the way the world works. The same it true in civilian life and in college life. Shit or get off the pot.
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Along with the advice already listed, keep in mind there is an additional source you can rely on - the unit Retention NCOs and Career Counselors. Everybody seems to have the thought in their mind that they are just a number, and too few realize that reenlistment is really a privilege, not an option. Retention NCOs and Career Counselors aren't just there for Soldiers wanting to stay in - they're also there for those wishing to transfer to the Reserve Component, and also for those wishing to ETS. If your Soldier wasn't spoken to by at least one of the two within 90-180 days of arriving to your unit, then someone dropped the ball. It happens, especially in larger units, but the idea with that first meeting, regardless of whether they'll hit their retention window with that unit or not, is to ensure a solid transition to your post and double check that the Army has made good on its promises to date (bonuses, schools, etc). Notice, I say Army, not previous unit. If a Soldier says their prior unit promised them a school and that promise went unfulfilled, that is not on the Army - that's on the previous unit. Throughout the Soldier's time in your unit, there should be regular correspondence between your Soldier and the Retention team, including your Company Commander. It is primarily your job to take care of your Soldier - the Retention team is meant to be a resource and in some ways a backstop. Additionally, talk with them yourself after your Soldier does. Because they are typically mostly outside that Soldier's direct chain of command, they may feel more comfortable bringing up a grievance you may be able to fix with those NCO's.
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1. Did he get a bonuses? If so he will have to pay it back if he doesn't finish out his time.
2. He can say good by to his college money if he is kick out.
3. Has anyone look at his contract?
4. Tell him to suck it up and soldier on.....
5. If he want's out then kick his ass out and have him bill for wasting tax payers money,
2. He can say good by to his college money if he is kick out.
3. Has anyone look at his contract?
4. Tell him to suck it up and soldier on.....
5. If he want's out then kick his ass out and have him bill for wasting tax payers money,
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What a great discussion from a decent question.
Maybe it was just my own experience, but it seems more common to find this with the nerdy kids who enlist to defy neediness. I was bound for being a professional violinist or computer science after high school, but I so wanted to impress my high school girlfriend that I enlisted for infantry with an Airborne contract.
And I hated it at first. I hated the hazing, I hated being treated like a mental midget by mental midgets. Over two decades later I'm still in.
What I had that changed it for me was good leadership and an unwillingness to allow my regrets to turn me into a poobag. I had an experienced platoon sergeant and squad leader that treated me like an adult and showed me what I could look forward to when I changed my perspective.
And I've tried so hard to send that elevator back down. Especially in today's society, this is a profound change for kids enlisting. So long as they do their jobs while they're feeling their way through reconciling with their new life, we old heads need to be paternal. And for the ones that start approaching Berghdal levels of "life is elsewhere"itis we can help them understand that they are turning "it's not for me" into self-fulfilling prophecy.
I swear we can answer nearly every RP post with "leaders, do your jobs."
Maybe it was just my own experience, but it seems more common to find this with the nerdy kids who enlist to defy neediness. I was bound for being a professional violinist or computer science after high school, but I so wanted to impress my high school girlfriend that I enlisted for infantry with an Airborne contract.
And I hated it at first. I hated the hazing, I hated being treated like a mental midget by mental midgets. Over two decades later I'm still in.
What I had that changed it for me was good leadership and an unwillingness to allow my regrets to turn me into a poobag. I had an experienced platoon sergeant and squad leader that treated me like an adult and showed me what I could look forward to when I changed my perspective.
And I've tried so hard to send that elevator back down. Especially in today's society, this is a profound change for kids enlisting. So long as they do their jobs while they're feeling their way through reconciling with their new life, we old heads need to be paternal. And for the ones that start approaching Berghdal levels of "life is elsewhere"itis we can help them understand that they are turning "it's not for me" into self-fulfilling prophecy.
I swear we can answer nearly every RP post with "leaders, do your jobs."
While I have seen this attitude many times, a good leader can be a positive influence on said service member. Help him /her along. There is the responsibility to make sure this person follows your orders/decisions, still be firm - but fair.
The military is not for everyone. With patience, guidance, and by example, the service member can finish an honest hitch. I was one of those types earlier in my career. I was the one who wrote FTN all over the walls. I had jerks for leaders, but I was blessed with many good leaders outweighing the bad ones. I continued making rank, and qualifications, and did well for the next ten plus years. A medical discharge pulled the rug out from under me. I miss being in, but moved on to another great career.
When I was in, there was 180 day probation period. If the service member could not hack it, I think it was a discharge under general conditions. Is this still in play?
The military is not for everyone. With patience, guidance, and by example, the service member can finish an honest hitch. I was one of those types earlier in my career. I was the one who wrote FTN all over the walls. I had jerks for leaders, but I was blessed with many good leaders outweighing the bad ones. I continued making rank, and qualifications, and did well for the next ten plus years. A medical discharge pulled the rug out from under me. I miss being in, but moved on to another great career.
When I was in, there was 180 day probation period. If the service member could not hack it, I think it was a discharge under general conditions. Is this still in play?
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Establish a profession emotional connection. My best NCOs were the ones that were very human to me when I had my own personal issues. If a soldier feels accepted, those feelings of wanting out could disappear. You will always have your hard-core "get me out of here" types, but I guess 95% of the time, soldiers can be given a good pep talk. The thing I hate is when intimidation and threats are used. You may keep them in, but they will need go above and beyond for you.
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