Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited >1 y ago
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CW2 Counterintelligence Technician
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CPL Santos,
I'm going to be very direct. Personally, and I don't care what her MOS is, I don't want a soldier who displays an utter lack of integrity in my Army. She had at least a couple of opportunities to fix this. 1. Either she didn't know the PT test was pencil-whipped or she did. If she didn't, as soon as she became aware of it, she should have cleared the air. If she did, she is disloyal, failed in her duty, failed to show respect to both the rank, the promotion board, and her leadership, is selfish, is dishonorable, lacks integrity and personal courage. 2. When she failed the PT test, she showed a gross lack of readiness, which is unsat in our Army, especially right now. She should have cleared the air then.

I'll be honest, I am a bit irritated at the fact that there is a soldier out there somewhere who is about to be promoted to become a leader of soldiers under these circumstance. I sincerely hope she is not in the 35 CMF.
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CPL José A CastroPacheco
CPL José A CastroPacheco
>1 y
Chief, I couldn't agree more with your words. How can we keep having the best trained armed forces in the world if our soldiers are lacking honesty and integrity and a lack of respect for the service and our nation? We need committed military personnel that believe in what our main mission is. We are the best armed forces and is for a reason. No one should be allowed to wear those stripes under false pretenses. She's no worthy of them.
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SFC Drill Sergeant
SFC (Join to see)
5 y
Okay, is the soldier injured, and didn't say anything. I doubt someone would go that far and fudge a 300 PT card, and she didn't receive or come close. That is a far stretch. I don't think the solider is being fully truthful
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SFC Ernest Thurston
SFC Ernest Thurston
5 y
PO1 (Join to see) - It's been more than a few years since I made SGT but I remember sitting down with someone in PAC and going over my entire promotion packet as they made up the score computation sheet and I had to verify the information as we went through it. The only reason I can see that a 300 PT score got into her file without her knowledge would be that the PAC didn't get it into her packet that same day which is unlikely or they had to request one from her training NCO and he couldn't find a current test so he manufactured one on the fly. Either way, it's wrong.
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SGT Jim Wiseman
SGT Jim Wiseman
>1 y
I have to agree, Chief! When I was in and also close to the end, I saw many E-6 and up in support MOS's that were grossly and obviously overweight. They were allowed to slide and as 11B's we were constantly (and rightly) hounded about being in shape. Being a mechanic in an Infantry unit was cause for my HHC PSG to hound them about being able to keep up with the grunts. They didn't like it, but it was valid. After about 2 years and a combat injury involving my foot and reconstruction of it, I had a permanent running profile. That limited what I was able to do and seemed to baffle some NCO's on how to keep me doing good PT. Complicating that was the missing portion of my abs which made sit-ups more difficult and no profile for it to compensate. It's a blur how it happened, but I know I was able to pass a PT test to go to the Board. I always wanted to make good on those and not get pencil-whipped.
I remember during my last year and the unit I was in was testing for EIB. With my constant problems on PT tests, I voiced to a friend with his EIB that I would have like to earn mine before leaving the Army, but wasn't sure I could even pass the PT test. He said (being a grader), "Come to my line. I'll make sure you pass." I told him flat out that I wouldn't want to earn my EIB like that.
If a soldier didn't display ability anywhere near a 300 PT score, I'd question it. They are rare enough, but if I could see someone had fallen in their ability a little, I'd say we'd have to work on it, but likely it would be passing already. Out and out falsifying is different from even a slight pencil-whip. Wanting promotion and striving for it is commendable, but abandoning integrity altogether is unforgivable. Being female and probably not among the few now serving as Infantry, it is still no excuse to slack on PT. It hasn't done for an excuse among males in non-combat MOS's, and seeing as how (despite past recruiters' ploys to sign up the reluctant with promises) all MOS's can be deployed, combat readiness is a must!
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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The Soldier is complicit in the forging of an official training record. She then allowed that record to be used to accept a promotion.
That violates the spirit and the letter of the entire first paragraph of the NCO Creed.
She has no business accepting a promotion based upon this.
Were she my Soldier, she'd be trundled down to the PT Track for an immediate record APFT. Regardless of score, the new one would be the basis for a recalculation in promotion points. She would be flagged until it hit the PPRL and I was sure that the new score was reflected there.

I wouldn't necessarily punish her for what had happened elsewhere, but I'd sure as hell counsel her. Her actions after she arrived in my unit would be scrutinized carefully. I don't know this Soldier, but she isn't getting off on the right foot.
I need NCOs with integrity, personal courage, and selfless service. This is not that. If she gets her head right - and apparently her fitness as well - then she can move out smartly and potentially lead others.
Until then, she needs to get her mind right.
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SFC Don Ward
SFC Don Ward
>1 y
Always told soldiers that worked for me - Nobody can take your integrity, you have to give it away. Pencil whipping PT tests, either way, is a breach of that integrity.
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SGT David Tillotson
SGT David Tillotson
>1 y
SSgt Greg Willard - A soldier is a soldier, whether Army, Air Force, Navy or Marine..
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SSgt Greg Willard
SSgt Greg Willard
>1 y
SGT David Tillotson: In your use of the title "soldier" you forgot the Coast Guard. If you're looking for a generic application you might try "Military Personnel". Just a thought.
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SFC Ernest Thurston
SFC Ernest Thurston
5 y
SSgt Greg Willard - Welcome to the fray Marine :-)
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
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Well, frankly, if you cannot for certain prove that it was falsified there isn't a whole lot that you can do. However, if the soldier fails a real OR test prior to being pinned she can be flagged and that will postpone any promotion. Fail another one and administrative action can be done to separate them. Frankly, they obviously don't have the integrity it takes to be a leader anyways. I would see that they take an APFT as soon as possible and flag them if they fail.
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CPL Glynnda White
CPL Glynnda White
>1 y
That is an excellent response SGT Gunderson
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SFC Brigade Operations Nocic
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
First of all, this Soldier has to acknowledge the score immediately following the APFT. During the course this Soldiers career, the APFT scores leading up to the 300 should be an indicator of especially if the Soldier failed the following diagnostic APFT. Knowing that one shows a dramatic increase in score when the effort or performance was sub par demonstrates a severe lack in integrity, especially if the score would result in favorable promotion points to the rank of SGT. The Soldier has been in the Army for more than a day and acting like they are the victim and denying much knowledge is also a test to the credibility of this individual. The NCO who forged this document in the previous unit also needs to be investigated as well since they were in the leadership position and has displayed poor judgement. Read the NCO Creed about using one's grade to attain, pleasure, profit, or personal safety. This is the problem of public pressure trying to make Military Service the same as any 9-5 job and it in no way has any similarity. I am sorry, Military Service has restrictions and limitations and not EVERYONE can participate, don't dumb down the discipline to make this all inclusive, it only lessens the ability to keep this nation safe.
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SFC Lee Massey
SFC Lee Massey
>1 y
CPL, I would count the previous APFT score of 300 as old news. I can tell you that getting an official determination into weather this APFT was false will be hard for you. She very well may currently be out of shape and just failed the diagnostic. There are administrative actions that you must currently take that will provide you every opportunity to either get this Soldier back into mission ready status or prepare for separation. Have an offline conversation with the 1SG and get his or her guidance on this situation. Seeing that the 1SG should most likely be aware of this already. Really your PSG should already have a pretty solid plan of action that you should be following at this point.
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SFC Ernest Thurston
SFC Ernest Thurston
>1 y
SFC Lee Massey - Give her a new PT test for record three weeks after the failed diagnostic. If she can't get a 300 start the process to Chapter her out. Someone needs to do some serious counseling on the NCO that signed off on her 300 PT test.
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