Posted on Feb 28, 2016
MSG Current Operations Ncoic
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The one I hate the most is the turn in of blank ammo brass. During any type of training that is not on a range, finding expended blank ammo casings is a complete waste of time.
Posted in these groups: Money budget BudgetCf9243e9 Government Funding
Edited 10 y ago
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Responses: 20
SPC Byron Skinner
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Sp4 Byron Skinner…The issue of policing brass. The soldiers are correct it is a waste of time, time better spent reviewing the training exercise. The Army contracts our reclamation and recycling of brass to a contractor. The Army does not resell the brass, it cost to much. The issue of reloading military brass, forget about it. The architecture of military shell casings is different from that of shell casing made for the civilian market thus military shell casings cannot be reloaded for sale on the civilian market…What things like policing brass or painting rocks say that the Army is not efficiently using a soldiers time. In entry training and AIT at least 20% of a soldiers time is take up with these needless activities. That is time that could be better used in the field or in a classroom being brought up to date on weapons platforms or weapons systems…The picture above illustrates this problem quite well. An officer is doing a job that could be done by a range safety NCO at a greatly reduced labor cost. I', sure that officer has more productive worn he can be doing the running a cleaning rod up a rifle barrel to verify that there is no round in the chamber.
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1SG Michael Blount
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Consolidating Class A, Dress White and Dress Blue uniforms into a whole NEW uniform - the ASU - that everyone was required to have. Why not just have done away with the Dress Whites and Blues and go to the Class A's, which everyone's had since Basic?
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COL Jon Thompson
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I spent an AT in Germany on a V Corps Warfighter Exercise. We were a small PSYOP Battalion staff attached to V Corps. We did not have our own barracks so we were spread out and there was no TP in the latrines. Units gave out individual rolls to their own Soldiers. Since we had no logistical tail there, we were stuck using MRE TP or whatever else we could find. Finding an almost empty roll was a godsend.
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SFC Ernest Thurston
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In Korea we didn't have that problem. There were always kids running around collecting the brass to sell or recycle. I remember a kid running along side of my HMMWV catching hot brass flying out of my M60 and putting it in an old sand bag that he also picked up in the training area.
Now, will go on my rant :-)
When they started closing down bases in Europe, thinking that the Germans would buy it all back from us. Instead we had to do all kinds of environmental corrections and basically pay them to take it back. It's because politicians forgot that after fifty years Germany was no longer an occupied country where we could do what ever we wanted they were an independent country with their own set of laws.
In way this links to policing up the brass after training. What happens fifty years later when the government ends the lease on the land and it reverts to the local government or the private land owner. Just ask what happened at Ft McClellan, AL. It was designated an EPA Super Fund site. The land was contaminated after years and years of training and dumping chemicals because the land wasn't occupied. I'm not one of those environmental wackos and I don't think leaving brass laying around is going to hurt anything, but we do need to make sure we aren't just using the land and dumping anything we want anywhere we want.
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SGT Project Manager
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Taking out the Tabasco sauce bottles in MREs!
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COL Jon Thompson
COL Jon Thompson
10 y
When did this happen?
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SGT Project Manager
SGT (Join to see)
10 y
Within the past year, Sir. They've replaced it with a generic hot sauce packet of sorts.
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SPC James Oswald
SPC James Oswald
9 y
ThAt was the only thing that made some MRE's worth eating
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SPC Byron Skinner
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Sp4 Byron Skinner. Back in the Vietnam era if brass collection detail was asked for the the response to the person giving such a stupid order would f__K you. what are going to do send me to Vietnam? The response by the 1st. Sgt. about brass costing money is not correct. The price of the service persons labor far out weights the cost of the collected brass. A more efficient and cost saving way of doing this is to hire an outside contractor. The time not spent collecting brass could be devoted to more range time or on exercised longer to critique the exercise. Soldiers are not free labor and there is no such thing as over training. The closing price of copper today, the valuable part of brass which is basically if I recall my HS Chemistry class brass is copper and tin was 2.1514lb, the salvage price is usual half of cost or a 1.0807lb.. how many 5.56mm cartage casings are in a pound?
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SPC Jesse Barber
SPC Jesse Barber
10 y
Actually, the brass can be cleaned and reloaded, which does save money. Plus,the soldiers are already getting paid for the time, does not take much time with everyone working together, and paying civilian contractors would cost more than the whole training day for soldiers.
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SFC Ernest Thurston
SFC Ernest Thurston
10 y
So let me get this straight. It's more cost effective to call in contractors making all kinds of money to pick up brass that they aren't even sure where it is, as opposed to having soldiers who just fired the ammo, know generally where it's and don't get paid a ton of money pick it up. Contractors are not the answer to the military's labor problems. Did you read the comment by the medic doing his job in a hospital working next to a civilian getting twice the money for the same work. What happens when these contractors go into the training area to pick up the brass. The range has to be cleared and you have to comply with a bunch of OSHA/EPA regs just to have them work in the area.
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SPC Byron Skinner
SPC Byron Skinner
10 y
Sp4 Byron Skinner. A couple of good responses. In order. Two issues with reloading, as reloaders know military brass cannot be satisfactorily reloaded. Two reasons the primer is crimped in and the walls of the taper inside the shell casing are more at the base then the civilian .223 shell casing. The Gov't. cost for either a 5.56mm or a 7.62mm is roughly $.50 each. IF an economic analysis could be done I wouldn't be surprised that the collection of spent brass doubles the cost of a bullet. The attitude that soldiers are prepaid labor is degrading to the soldiers who have to do these "make work" duties and a waste of money. A civilian contractor provided a fixed price and I doubt if the would use anywhere near the labor that the military uses for this kind duty. Yes a contractor is ion it for the profit, that's called a market economy.
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SGT Steven Potter
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CARDBOARD DOORS ON THE SHOOT HOUSE AT FT. RILEY. THEN RANGE CONTROL GETTING MAD BECAUSE PVT'S PUTTING THEIR FOOT THROUGH THEM WHEN THEY WERE CAUGHT IN THE MOMENT AND A LITTLE OVER-ZEALOUS WHEN ENTERING ROOMS. SMFH.
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SFC Jim Hunter
SFC Jim Hunter
9 y
In a similar vane, while serving as a PLDC instructor, we had a MOUT training objective. During the planning phase, the student leaders asked how they should enter the building (it was two stories and a basement). They determined top down, I approved. Arriving at the door on the second floor, we found it locked with padlock. I gave them permission to kick it in. We ended up taking out all the aggressors without loss.
The fallout from that was the School CSM came unglued. He threatened me in several ways. He finally decided to "charge me" for the lock and the hasp. I told him I would not teach incorrect tactics. I retired the next year after 32 years, and no, I never paid for the lock and hasp.
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COL R. Bruce Chisholm
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First Sergeant, if I remember from my Fort Benning days (1982-1983): brass recovery was instituted after it was found some locals and Soldiers were getting rich from recycling/reselling brass and ammo cans. We had to turn everything back to ASP including the wooden crates the cans came in.
BTW, There's a creek there that has ALOT of M60 blanks, still in the cans, where we'd toss them rather than carry them on the march out to the training area.
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MSG Robert Mills
MSG Robert Mills
10 y
well good for the soldiers for being that industrious, they carry the stuff, shoot the stuff, and eventually pick it back up why shouldnt they be able to cash in on it, I support it lol, god forbid a soldier get a little extra off of something lol we wouldnt want that.
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MSG Robert Mills
MSG Robert Mills
10 y
call it police call motivation, pay them for it or the work and guess what your posts, ranges, and everything else will be the epitome of clean, squared away, and looking nice, its kinda like mowing grass there are people making hundreds of thousands of dollars off the Army for mowing, when if you just gave the soldier half of that money they would be glad to mow the grass.. really cost savings well theres an idea, but we or they dont want to pay the soldiers for that kind of work.. Take Range control for example, now how many E-6's could do that job? yet we pay who, thats right a bunch of retirees twice the money to do what a E-6 would gladly do for an extra $200 a month.
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SGM Robert Speakman
SGM Robert Speakman
10 y
I agree Sergeant, so much wasted money
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SCPO Larry Poffenbarger
SCPO Larry Poffenbarger
10 y
At Twenty-Nine Palms Seabees buried cases of ammo because we weren't allowed to turn it back to the armory. Backhoe dug a BIG hole and lots of tax dollars dumped in.
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SSG Ken Gilder
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Turning over Army lodging to the same people that run Holiday Inns. Staying at an Army guest facility costs nearly twice as much as staying at an Air Force Inn, for a comparable room.
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SCPO Investigator
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Edited 10 y ago
You took the one I remembered. We did have a CSM who was huge on recycling stuff in the Battalion office. BTW, this was during my Army Reserves years...if you wonder why the photo doesn't match!!!
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