Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Infantryman
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
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SPC Franklin McKown
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I would say it goes along with the on going pussification we have already endured because wussies are offended. It started when they began modifying our cadences and sensitivity training then showed up for THIS mess...GOOD LUCK my friend they are cutting 33 COMBAT brigade soon.
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
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What does "cutting 33 Combat Brigades" have to do with the topic being discussed?
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CPL(P) Civilian Driver
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It's kind of funny how the army takes people's emotions into account for somethings while completely disregarding the majority of things such as the lies of recruiting and the ever-growing culture of blue falconry (to which this policy adds to). To regulate language in such a manner is profoundly criminal. WE swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic. This equates to being against the constitution and the freedom of speech and writing which means it is our enemy. NOTE: This argument does not mean that constant swearing isn't bad form, but that will be demonstrated by performance reviews as well as the social reaction of peers, seniors, and subordinates. It's a fine line to walk, but we all must ask if our actions or policies go against the most fundamental and primary requirement of our jobs regardless of our rank, position, and dispositions which is to -uphold and defend the constitution. Anything else is secondary and tertiary and if it goes against it must be abolished.
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
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This country, and the writing of the "Constitution of The United States" was founded on morals and decency, in par,t taken from a precursor known as the "Frame of Government" initially written by William Penn, the Proprietor of Pennsylvania, a devout Quaker. Upon establishing his colony, each community elected their representatives, to the Pennsylvania Assembly, the first of it's kind in the colonies! At that time the Assembly was made up of Quakers, and Mennonites, and it was from these men of morality that ensured many freedoms for those in Pennsylvania, unheard of in other colonies. Thus when writing the Constitution (primarily by Thomas Jefferson) they looked to the "King James" version of the Bible for guidance. The men that wrote this living document that you refer to, were not given to the utterances of profanity, in public or private. The Amendment regarding "Free Speech" was meant to serve as a deterrent to our government at all levels that may be tempted to suppress ideas and thoughts of citizens in our society making speeches in public places or, by writing etc., not to ensure that low-life was free to walk around using profanity, or stand in front of the public and spew gutter-talk in front of those offended by it. Profanity does not make you a "Bad Ass", just an Ass!
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CPL(P) Civilian Driver
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CPT, I agree that they intended a social contract would still exist. It is bad form to be using profanity based upon folkways and mores. However, my former 1SG said it best when he said, "I may not like what you're saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Words carry no weight that the receiver does not assign. It is only the action of a person that affects physical reality. Words may be predictors, yet again they carry zero weight in objective reality. To damage a person because of their words defies the other side of the double edge sword that the gentleman knew would accompany their constitutional submission. They were brilliant men, and knew that this darker side of freedom of speech would also be protected.
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
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You are entitled to your opinion, but there is nothing that I have studied regarding intentions that indicated this "dark side" you refer to. In most Municipalities, profane language is still considered a misdemeanor, if the Police Officer is inclined to enforce it.
I can assure that any subordinate Officer or Non-Commissioned Officer who verbalized profanity in front of me, was politely requested to clean up his vocabulary. Superiors that I reported to offended my sensibilities when relying on vulgar and profane language, thus I immediately lost a measure of respect for them.
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CPL(P) Civilian Driver
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Proposed 25 September 1789
Ratified 15 December 1791

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Bill of Rights~587292: CPT William Ainley] - yes Captain, that's the consequence of profane language in the coc. It's distasteful. However, we are on a woeful path when we twist the plain language of the constitution. Even the municipalities are in violation. Someone with deep enough pockets could fight it. The problem we run into is common law and precedents rather than juris civilis. It's a beautiful thing when it works in our favor, yet then again it should never be allowed to be manipulated in such a manner.

I would like to have you in my coc. It would foster an atmosphere of more professionalism which I've preached for to no avail since basic.
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MSG Alfred Aguilar
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F#@k...
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SSG Fred Campbell
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What's a "warrior leader"??
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Cpl Robert Masi
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Is Swearing going to hurt someone's fragile Sensibilities? I think I've figured it out. Liberals only want soft and pathetic people to join the Military, because those are the only people interested in that BULLSHIT.
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Cpl Robert Masi
Cpl Robert Masi
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Start singing Cadences about how you like to bake cookies, and take long walks on the beach. Before you know it, all the units will be separated by their Sign. Because you don't want any anxiety from a Gemini if you're a Libra......Look out.
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Cpl Robert Masi
Cpl Robert Masi
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Good thing Russia can pick up the slack where our Intestinal Fortitude used to exist
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CW3 David Covey
CW3 David Covey
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Cpl Robert Masi - Now that brings back memories.. Really pissed me off when we couldn't sing the ornery cadence calls any more, we always got a laugh out of them.. Don't get me wrong, I'm old school Army and can cuss with the best of them, but I was also raised with manners so I watched my mouth around my elders and women. That included those who outranked me.. I never hesitated to correct anyone no matter the rank that used foul language around females and would not tolerate it from females either. They seemed to be almost as bad as the guy's and sometimes worse..
As far as using it in instructor mode.. It was never needed in my case, although while sitting in a class it didn't bother me to hear it unless females were present.
I went through basic at the tail end of Vietnam. The Army was changing and we were not supposed to be beat on and physically abused. Nothing was said about having a DI skull **** you with his hat though, or describe your ancestry in colorful language.. Ahh memories..lol
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SSG Chris B.
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Well, when I went through it years ago, the policy was clearly there to attempt to give all the students aneurisms. It was successful at keeping me off the commandant's list as well.
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
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Well then," there you have it!"
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SPC Luis Mendez
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They may be looking for more brainiacs! IOW people with more Intellectual and Mental prowess who can actually solve problems and maybe even win wars or at least some major decisive battles.
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SPC Christopher Perrien
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Here is the "out"- always has been-
"the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces. "

If the profanity is not "prejudice of good order and discipline" , it is not against the reg.
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SFC David Brunk
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I'm 58 and have cussed more in the past 5 years than I had in my entire life. When I was a Drill Sergeant, I rarely cussed but if my cruits head me cussing they knew to duck and cove because the 'Nuke' (an old Army nickname) was about to go off. There are soooo many different ways to verbalize why stick to the same ... tho I do use 'shit' on a regular basis! LOL
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CW3 Vernon Messer
CW3 Vernon Messer
>1 y
Good comment. I agree with what you say. As the above question reads, cussing in the military academic environment is being prohibited. Sounds ok. But looking at this in a wider perspective, I see what is going on at college campuses across the US. Freedom of speech is being severely curtailed in the academic arena in the name of trying to prevent anyone from being offended or having their feelings hurt at any time. When did it become a right to go thru life and never be offended or have your feelings hurt.? The prohibition on cussing in the WLC may be a harbinger of the same type of PC speech and thought police actions going on at US colleges & universities....or it may just be a good thing to do. I recommend Soldiers look at other aspects of military life and customs and look at conspicuous/inconspicuous efforts to change things for sake of change, or to fulfill somebody's PC doctrine. Look at what is going on in society as a whole and make your opinions known.
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LTC Retired
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You "checked" your "freedom of speech" when you signed your DD Form 4
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SFC Agr Recruiter
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There is always a time and place for cussing. In the field with your fellow battles, in the barracks, out on the town or even down range. In garrison is where you have to really pay attention to what you are saying because you never know who's listening. Smoking and Joking has been part of our history for over Two Hundred Years.

Just my $0.02
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CSM Troy McGilvray
CSM Troy McGilvray
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"There is always a time and place for cussing". When is that? I'm 78 years old, served 26 plus years in the US Army, retired as a CSM, had positions of responsibility in civilian life......and I've never seen, or been, in a place or time when cussing was necessary.
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SFC Agr Recruiter
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Understandable CSM Troy McGilvray and thanks for your opinion. Once again, in the Field during training, in the barracks in my room with my fellow soldiers. If i'm at a bar watching a UFC Fight or a Football Game and I don't like what has happened and choose to say Shit, Damn-It or drop and F-Bomb. What does it matter if I do this?
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