Posted on Oct 23, 2015
What is the purpose of the "no profanity" policy in WLC?
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
Posted in these groups: 
NCOES
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Small Group Leader
Professionalism
Leadership
NCOES Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) Small Group Leader Professionalism Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 142
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Our civil society considers profanity in work settings offensive. Garrison, and by extension TRADOC, are going to often mirror many social norms found in civil society because we as an Army are not isolated when in garrison nor are we a distinct social caste with unique rights (not benefits, rights). When in the field with your own men with whom you have built up a rapport or deployed where you really are separated from civil society, norms adjust to the personalities of the people involved. A unit filled with a bunch of mountain boys from Appalachia will sound and act differently from one filled with a bunch of midwestern urbanites. TRADOC doesn't have the benefit of the rapport found in a cohesive unit nor the cultural familiarity of having folks with similar backgrounds. Thus, we use a civil norm for professional conduct we are all familiar with. In other words, it has more to do with sociology than "Army culture".
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You should be comfortable in any situation and any circumstance. You should be able to kibbitz with VIPs and not be nervous about swearing. You should also be able to fit in at a bar with people that swear. These concepts also work for clothing, behavior, table manners, vocabulary, etc. A true leader can be a leader in any circumstance, and word usage is a large part of that. Being flexible with your capabilities makes you a better leader, a better asset, and more personally and professionally mobile.
Actually, I used to swear a lot and overcoming that habit (and it is a habit) was one of the most difficult things I had to do when I moved into the civilian world. (Also, civilians often don't appreciate our sense of humor.)
Actually, I used to swear a lot and overcoming that habit (and it is a habit) was one of the most difficult things I had to do when I moved into the civilian world. (Also, civilians often don't appreciate our sense of humor.)
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I have no clue- the use of Expletives, when used properly, elliminates the need of some lower enlisted, including myself(when I was a junior NCO) to argue semantics, when the Leader was in a very tight time-line (mission oriented). there's a time to question orders and a time to explain those orders after a situation has been resolved. Some new NCO's need an adjustment time to get used to the responsibility of the Leadership Rank, however once settled in they get comfortable and the lower Enlisted hears it in their voice and automatically responds to such. just trying to help.
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must be a new rule - never heard of it before - my mom use to sai I had a "potty mouth" when i came back from the field and would keep me from my kids for 2 weeks till I "cleaned my mouth" - lol - man did i enjoy those extra two weeks of peace and quiet.
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No profanity? My question is, WTF changed the course name? Warrior Leader Course? My nickel bet guess is some bastard Colonel needed a fcuking Legion of Merit to make general and everyone knows those LOM are awarded for unfcuking shit that wasn't fcuked up to begin with.
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"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight it's way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."
-General George Patton
-General George Patton
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I think it's a bit silly myself. Infantryman have foul mouths, that's just how it is. Marking people off for saying "fuckin" or "shit" during an oporder pitch or while giving a class is a bit ridiculous. You can't expect us to suppress 2-3+ years of hearing/saying it nonstop in a matter of days/weeks. Just an observation
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CSM Troy McGilvray
I don't agree. I was in the infantry 12 years, armor 10 years, and division support command for 4 years. Went from E-1 to CSM. I was a CSM for ten years......profanity was not necessary then (from 1955-1982), and I don't believe it is necessary now. Maybe I'm too old or the soldiers have changed. A leader does not need to resort to being "potty mouthed" I never used it and I taught infantry tactics for six years. As a CSM, my NCOs did not use profanity around me. Profanity shows a lack of leadership skills.
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SPC (Join to see)
No one said you neeeed it. But at a school like WLC you should not have points deducted for cussing
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CSM Troy McGilvray
In real life, I know many senior NCOs and officers who graded off for "potty mouth" tendencies on efficiency ratings. I am aware of NCOs not getting promoted because of their use of profanity.
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SSG Katherine Likely
When I was with the group 297th of the California National Guard Reserves in Marysville, California - they took 2 people - me and another gal and sent us to Hawaii where we meant there with 6 other males to drive truck - supplies and people for support of the infantry.
I was around the infantry daily or with in ear shot and we used the same honey buckets. Occasionally I would hear a smart ass remark and occasionally I would use the honey bucket with all the writings on the wall - but I have never heard much cussing in the 2 weeks I was there.
I understand profanity as if it were a child in my arms, doesn't mean it needs a bath every day - only when it's been out playing in the mud and you don't want to get your uniform dirty from it.
I was around the infantry daily or with in ear shot and we used the same honey buckets. Occasionally I would hear a smart ass remark and occasionally I would use the honey bucket with all the writings on the wall - but I have never heard much cussing in the 2 weeks I was there.
I understand profanity as if it were a child in my arms, doesn't mean it needs a bath every day - only when it's been out playing in the mud and you don't want to get your uniform dirty from it.
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Sp4 Byron Skinner. What the f--k? I suppose there in son more passing a jug of hooch around in the barracks, or "take five, smoke em if you got em." Warriors Leader Course"? Isn't that for Boy Scouts? I suppose in BCT the size ten up the six when you f--k up is out to. They still must wake you up at 0100 and have a GI party and clean the barracks floor with tooth brushes. Do you still do ten pull ups, knuckles out to get into the mess hall in BCT or AIT?
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I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying I cannot believe how sissyfied the military is becoming
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CPT William Ainley
Really, so back in your day it wasn't sissyfied? What makes you think so? When Von Steuben took charge of the soldiers at Valley Forge, you are convinced he used profane language, and insisted it be used by all those responsible for conducting Drill and Ceremonies really? When were you in the Military?
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UCMJ has never been subject to the constitution is the service your constitutional rights are no longer applicable.
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