Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Infantryman
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
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Responses: 142
COL David S.
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Between 1996 and 2003 I worked at the Pentagon. During that period I once heard profanity. It was not commented upon, but it did not occur again. It does not aid the work effort and is not professional. Perhaps the NCOES schools are trying to make a point about professionalism.
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COL John Power
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Perhaps it is because profanity reflects a lack of vocabulary, demeaning the image of the user. It can offend many people in our society. It doesn't carry any more meaning and makes you sound like a jerk. And who wants to follow a jerk? It isn't an easy habit to break, but once you have done so you really are much better for it. Those you lead will actually respect you more and follow you. Isn't that the purpose of the school?
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CPT Endre Barath
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Having been in the Infantry as an Airborne, Ranger I appreciate the question. To answer the question let me digress. The better we can express ourselves the clearer our message will be to those we are trying to communicate. People will actually understand us faster if we eliminate the F-bomb every third word in a sentence. The F-bomb not only hinders the communication, but it is also a sign of a lack of vocabulary to express ourselves. The average person uses about 3-5000 word vocabulary. Someone like William F Buckle,Jr. had a conversational use of about 10,000 words. Every one understood what he said, politicians, reporters and the average american. By dropping the four letter words we will not hurt or hinder us rather help us. It took me quite a while to drop my Salt & Pepper language when I left the military and it was just a "bad" habit. RLTW! it is not RLTFW:))
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CPT Jack Durish
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A "look" can say so much more than words. Learn how to cuss with your eyes and you'll motivate rocks to move out with alacrity...
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SFC Brian Ewing
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Edited >1 y ago
Indecent Language is clearly under Article 134, what is the point of using such profane language anyway when none of it makes sense anyway and most people don't even know what half of it means or even where it originated from.

Would you want your kids to talk that way to you? If you do it then they will do it!! There is always a better way or better word to use to say what you have to say and still get your point across as effectively as if you used profanity.

It isn't culture, it's ignorance!! Just so you know, I was Infantry too!!
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SGT John Rauch
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you are a professional. thats the purpose. to intill professionalism in young NCO's, because very few have it.
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SSG Infantryman
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
If you seriously correct your soldiers for general swearing around the company ? Pardon MY French but that is some Pog ass shit. I completely understand if your wife is present but other than situations like that you need to find a more productive use of your corrections than that.
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SGT John Rauch
SGT John Rauch
>1 y
everyone has their own style I guess, I found that the best leadership in my unit were the ones who acted professionally at all times. even outside of uniform.
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SGT John Rauch
SGT John Rauch
>1 y
also I find it far more amusing to get my point across calmly and quietly while the other guy flips his lid
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SPC Nathaniel Reynolds
SPC Nathaniel Reynolds
>1 y
Hell Sgt. Rauch, glad you weren't my team leader, you'd be correcting me all the time, hahaha.
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LTC Retired
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240 years of culture y you say? Consider this:
Washington's Order Against Profanity

The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington
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COL John Hudson
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Edited >1 y ago
I can't agree with the statement of ..."240 years of culture" without asking the question "whose culture?" I enlisted in the Army on August 22, 1966, long before Gunnery Sergeant Hartman ever scorched movie screens across the nation. Called into the HQ office to update a record, I noted a board displayed above the Captain's door. Engraved on it were the words, "Profanity is the mark of an ignorant man." Unexpected, puzzling even; given where I was at the time. I've had an incredibly unique military experience in that I wore Enlisted rank, then Warrant Officer, and finally walked out the back door after 30 years as a full Colonel never, in all that time, ever forgetting those words.

Anyone choosing to take on a Leadership role in any capacity needs to have a clear understanding of exactly what the word "Leader" stands for. A Leader lives by standards set to demonstrate the finest aspects of the military, not the lowest. There is no place in any aspect of today's military (Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard) to substitute proper language for gutter filth profanity. As a matter of fact, Army Regulation is crystal clear on this issue, and anyone using such as a matter of course may find themselves on the wrong end of a harassment claim, subject to UCMJ oversight.

Commentary herein quotes Lt. General George S. Patton's motivational speeches during 1943~44 as a reference to justify use of gratuitous profanity. Note the following: "On each occasion, he would wear his polished helmet, full dress uniform, and gleaming riding boots, and carry a riding crop to snap for effect. Patton frequently kept his face in a scowl he referred to as his "war face." He would arrive in a Mercedes and deliver his remarks on a raised platform surrounded by a very large audience seated around the platform and on surrounding hills. Each address was delivered to a division-sized force of 15,000 or more men."

NOT to women, children, families, office environments, or anyone alive today in 2015! There was a WORLD WAR going on at the time, and the need for such is clearly understood. I have no problem with what's said out in the field...I support that. Just have a clear understanding of the difference between the "field" and "garrison" and conduct yourself accordingly whether you're in a leadership position or not.
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COL John Power
COL John Power
>1 y
Very well said!
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CPT William Ainley
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Do you think being vulgar is a good way to get your point across? 240 years of culture, really? where are you getting this information from? Any person that wears Corporal stripes or above are "Non-Commissioned Officers" and that person is responsible for "Setting the example" How many of your subordinates really respect you for talking like a "Low Life"!
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SFC Rodrick Carter
SFC Rodrick Carter
>1 y
AMEN!
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MSG David Clifford
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From the papers of General George Washington:
The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington

Just because those before us couldn't express themselves without profanity, does not mean we have to lower ourselves to that standard.

MSG(R) Clifford
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