Posted on Apr 22, 2016
What is your advice for Females joining the ranks of the combat jobs in the Military?
204K
1.53K
720
100
99
1
I am an Army Recruiter and it would be great to share.
As we gear up to ship out some of our first female Future Soldiers in combat jobs, I ask of the members of RP, what is your advice for these young soldiers?
Please keep it constructive and nothing along the lines of they shouldn't be able to serve in these positions because that ship has sailed and opinions about how they should not serve in these positions are not going to change anything.
Edit: The conversation among RP members about mentoring these service members is amazing. Honestly, I did not know what to expect when I started the thread, because this is a subject many feel strong about. Thank you so much for all of your advice thus far, I cannot wait to share it with our female and male recruits and hope you share it in your ranks/communities as well. Together we are molding the future of the military.
As we gear up to ship out some of our first female Future Soldiers in combat jobs, I ask of the members of RP, what is your advice for these young soldiers?
Please keep it constructive and nothing along the lines of they shouldn't be able to serve in these positions because that ship has sailed and opinions about how they should not serve in these positions are not going to change anything.
Edit: The conversation among RP members about mentoring these service members is amazing. Honestly, I did not know what to expect when I started the thread, because this is a subject many feel strong about. Thank you so much for all of your advice thus far, I cannot wait to share it with our female and male recruits and hope you share it in your ranks/communities as well. Together we are molding the future of the military.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 398
Most of the responses seem geared towards unit cohesiveness and acceptance but there is a bigger picture to keep in mind. Go in, do the best that you can, but if you can't keep up then you should be looking for another MOS. Forcing the issue and changing the standards only puts everyone in jeopardy. The Marines did their study with an all male combat force competing with a mixed gender force and not 1:1, it was only 25% female. The all male combat force outperformed the mixed gender force. Your recruits are not just applying for a job, they volunteering to serve this nation. The goal is to go to battle and win period. War is not about fairness. You win or you lose. There are no trophies because you showed up. Fielding a fighting force on the battle field is about preserving our nation and our way of life. If they are up to the challenge then who cares if they are a man or woman. But they need to be able to do the work day after day after their initial training too. It's not about just completing infantry school or ranger school, you have to be able to perform at that level day after day. That ruck sac isn't going to get lighter with time (somehow is seems to get heavier).
winning.http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
winning.http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
(3)
(0)
SSG Bethany Viglietta
Sgt Jamie Grippin That study was interesting to me because the different levels of training of the forces. The female Marines do not have the same combat training as the male Marines. I would love to see the experiment done again after the boot camps are integrated, which I know will not be for awhile. You are right about the ruck getting heavier.
(0)
(0)
My advise is don't do it just because you can or to make a statement. You will be sorely disappointed in your decision. If you decide to join the Infantry, Armor or any other combat arms branch, do it because you feel it is the right thing for you. Understand it won't be easy, glamorous or fun. It will be hard, backbreaking work. You will be expected to carry the same load as your male counterparts. You will not be given any breaks and when your Sergeant tells you to ruck up and move out, you will be expected to pick up your load and move out with your sometimes 100+ pounds on your back and your weapon. I would also tell you that even though it is authorized by the military, a lot of the soldiers may not except you until you prove yourself. However, that it like any new soldier in an Infantry unit. It will just be more intense for a female.
(3)
(0)
Get in the best shape possible. Get a pack and do lots of road marches. Work up to 45 lbs. and 12 miles. You have to have tough feet or be able to walk with bad blisters. It doesn't matter which so long as you can perform.
(3)
(0)
SFC Terry Murphy
45 pounds? The only time I had a pack that was 45 pounds was when we would do a road march for EIB or something along those lines. When I was "light" Infantry, my pack was at least 100 pounds. When I was a Weapons Squad Leader, my gunners were carrying about 120 pounds. Desert Storm, as an Assistant Team Leader for a LRSD Team, my LBE alone was almost 35 pounds.
(2)
(0)
LTC Peter Hartman
45 lbs is for beginners. Yes in the light infantry units I served in we routinely carry well over 100 lbs of gear.
(1)
(0)
SSG Bethany Viglietta
LTC Peter Hartman - Thank you sir! We are starting to take all our Future Soldiers on "hikes" that have weighted packs. They will all have to want to do more on their own to truly make it.
(1)
(0)
SSG Bethany Viglietta This has to be one of the best questions I've seen posted in several weeks. Kudos to you for asking such a valuable question.
(3)
(0)
SSG Bethany Viglietta
Capt Brandon Charters Thank you sir! I know I have my own opinions and experiences to share, but a whole community of veterans is worth so much more to these young trailblazers
(1)
(0)
Be prepared to not have any privacy.
Nothing is off limits when it comes to humor.
The Infantry are not happy about women joining.
There is going to be some jealousy and flirting.
You will be expected to maintain the same standards as everyone else.
You will be expected to keep up with everyone else.
If you cant hack it you will probably end your career after four years because they will label You a shitbag and treat you as such.
Look the bottom line here is that the combat arms guys don't see women like the rest of the military. Its black and white, either you can keep up or you cant. If you can then there wont be many issues, but if you cant youre going to have a long 4 years. These guys are already disgruntled about this, so women are facing an uphill battle here. You have to go in with the mindset that youre going to show them all you can handle it. If they adopt that mindset and strive to outperform their peers they'll do fine. But like I said, this is an all male field. Its like being the only girl on an all male football team. Nothing is off limits and don't expect special treatment.
Nothing is off limits when it comes to humor.
The Infantry are not happy about women joining.
There is going to be some jealousy and flirting.
You will be expected to maintain the same standards as everyone else.
You will be expected to keep up with everyone else.
If you cant hack it you will probably end your career after four years because they will label You a shitbag and treat you as such.
Look the bottom line here is that the combat arms guys don't see women like the rest of the military. Its black and white, either you can keep up or you cant. If you can then there wont be many issues, but if you cant youre going to have a long 4 years. These guys are already disgruntled about this, so women are facing an uphill battle here. You have to go in with the mindset that youre going to show them all you can handle it. If they adopt that mindset and strive to outperform their peers they'll do fine. But like I said, this is an all male field. Its like being the only girl on an all male football team. Nothing is off limits and don't expect special treatment.
(3)
(0)
I have always felt that as long as ANYONE can meet the set standard and get the mission done, then it's no skin off me.
(3)
(0)
Well...my opinion on the matter is this:
Be prepared. Meet (and exceed) your standards. Attend to your duties and responsibilities as you should.
I'm a retired submariner, so combat for me takes on a different perspective than for Army Soldiers. But male or female, combat is no joke. Perhaps more so than at any other time, your life, and the lives of those around you, are directly dependent upon your capabilities.
Those capabilities are physical, mental, and emotional. And they aren't any different between the genders.
So maximize them. Don't compromise. Know your job. Learn the jobs of those around you and above you. Do your duty. Know your limits and push them. Don't accept any less from yourself or your team mates.
And if anybody should contest the gender issue? So long as you're doing what I've said, as far as I'm concerned, they can bugger off.
Be prepared. Meet (and exceed) your standards. Attend to your duties and responsibilities as you should.
I'm a retired submariner, so combat for me takes on a different perspective than for Army Soldiers. But male or female, combat is no joke. Perhaps more so than at any other time, your life, and the lives of those around you, are directly dependent upon your capabilities.
Those capabilities are physical, mental, and emotional. And they aren't any different between the genders.
So maximize them. Don't compromise. Know your job. Learn the jobs of those around you and above you. Do your duty. Know your limits and push them. Don't accept any less from yourself or your team mates.
And if anybody should contest the gender issue? So long as you're doing what I've said, as far as I'm concerned, they can bugger off.
(2)
(0)
Wow, there seem to be a BUNCH of people saying "don't expect to be treated differently" and "just do your job and everything else should work out" or some such thing. The problem with those types of comments, as well-meaning as they are, is that they are basically WRONG. The truth is that female Soldiers aren't treated like "one of the guys" in most NON combat units, and they damned well aren't going to be treated like @just another Soldier in combat units. Young Soldiers will vie for a female Soldier's attention and for her, ahem, attentions.
So what's a female Soldier to do? Well in that I completely agree with what most of the other posters have said here - do your job, don't let the good 'ok boys network ruffle your feathers, give as good as you get. But to all that I add this: don't fall into the trap of being the "Unit Princess." Don't let the fact that men are essentially a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who follow their libido wherever it leads them become an issue by buying into all of the platitudes that will come your way. And it doesn't matter whether your a beauty queen or a bulldog - young guys will find ANY excuse to "hot that," and be the guy who "conquered" that particular obstacle before anyone else.
So yes, do your job. Yes, don't just deal with toilet humor but either definitively tell the assholes to stop or join in and hit them all with both barrels. And yes, do what you need to do in order to fit in with the rest of your unit while maintaining both your integrity and following the Soldiers and (if you're of that rank) the NCO Creed.
But ALSO be constantly mindful that your generation is NOT the one that will erase the thought of gender in combat units - yours is the generation that paves the way for that future generation, and the best way to do that is to both keep showing that you are worthy of your billet and to "keep it in your pants" so to speak, and keep the business of being a Combat Arms Soldier SEPERATE from whatever pleasure here may be out there.
Godspeed.
So what's a female Soldier to do? Well in that I completely agree with what most of the other posters have said here - do your job, don't let the good 'ok boys network ruffle your feathers, give as good as you get. But to all that I add this: don't fall into the trap of being the "Unit Princess." Don't let the fact that men are essentially a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who follow their libido wherever it leads them become an issue by buying into all of the platitudes that will come your way. And it doesn't matter whether your a beauty queen or a bulldog - young guys will find ANY excuse to "hot that," and be the guy who "conquered" that particular obstacle before anyone else.
So yes, do your job. Yes, don't just deal with toilet humor but either definitively tell the assholes to stop or join in and hit them all with both barrels. And yes, do what you need to do in order to fit in with the rest of your unit while maintaining both your integrity and following the Soldiers and (if you're of that rank) the NCO Creed.
But ALSO be constantly mindful that your generation is NOT the one that will erase the thought of gender in combat units - yours is the generation that paves the way for that future generation, and the best way to do that is to both keep showing that you are worthy of your billet and to "keep it in your pants" so to speak, and keep the business of being a Combat Arms Soldier SEPERATE from whatever pleasure here may be out there.
Godspeed.
(2)
(0)
LTC James McElreath
The statement given you by MSG Jim, is probably what you need to do so that you fit in and sexuality had nothing to do with it! You will have to do your job better than your counterparts. Don't take any crap from thoue around you, become thick skinned and let the harassment (hazing) bounce off your toughened exterior. Who knows given time you might have the upper hand! Do your duties, training etc. much better than just getting bye. You will need to be better than the male counterparts. Best of luck , but kick butt! A__! I happened to have an opportunity to work with one of those females whom know what their job was and could perform her duties in a superior fashion. She ran convoy through probably 90% of Iraq and the male counter parts never gave her any crap! Che would had kicked their butts!
(0)
(0)
As the first female SMP in the AR National Guard in 1980 and one of the first female CE Officers in the 39th INF BDE HQ's in the mid 80's I would tell them to carry their weight but most of all be a Soldier and do the job that you signed up to do without asking for special consideration. Be a team player and they will accept you as part of the team. Remember there are those that are negative in all areas of work whether it is in the Military or Civilian world. Do the best that you can do and the expertise will follow. Good luck.
(2)
(0)
What we have is a cultural thing of our women not being in combat which is not shared in other countries. There were women in the Bible that were in combat and where they were exceptions, they were with God! I say any woman that goes into a combat unit, learn your craft, carry your weight, know there will be those that will box you in of what their image of what a woman should be and can do. You can be just as deadly in combat as that male soldier next to you and still not lose your feminine side. Stay true to who you are and be a professional. When you or if you have to be in a fire fight brawl with the best of them. Remember close with and violence of action! The other thing to remember is that we all have weaknesses and a true team covers each other because where one may be weak in an area and other is strong in that area and that counts whether in an all male or male female combat unit! Combat is not pretty and even training in case of combat is not pretty. know there will be days of no baths, not being squeamish when one has to expose parts of their body for leach checks and so on.
HOLD YOUR OWN, KNOW YOUR CRAFT, LEAD BY EXAMPLE, AND BE PROUD TO BE A WARRIOR!
HOLD YOUR OWN, KNOW YOUR CRAFT, LEAD BY EXAMPLE, AND BE PROUD TO BE A WARRIOR!
(2)
(0)
LTC Angie Habina
I understand you mean a there is an American cultural reserve of women in combat, or rather specifically combat arms units as we associate those units with the only ones in harms way, but the truth is women have been in combat for the United States since 1775. We've been shot at, wounded, killed on the battle field for the last 16 years. No, not the same rate as men, but females only make up 13-15% of the force. I commanded in an infantry brigade. My first job as an officer was combat arms.
Totally agree, that any woman that goes into a combat arms unit needs to know their position, skill set, and carry their own weight....BUT this is true for Soldiers in ANY kind of unit, of ANY gender, race, religion, or orientation. Honestly, we don't have time for special requests or sitting on the curb crying about "how unfair" things feel (FEEL!).
I agree with the remainder of your thoughts/comments.
Totally agree, that any woman that goes into a combat arms unit needs to know their position, skill set, and carry their own weight....BUT this is true for Soldiers in ANY kind of unit, of ANY gender, race, religion, or orientation. Honestly, we don't have time for special requests or sitting on the curb crying about "how unfair" things feel (FEEL!).
I agree with the remainder of your thoughts/comments.
(0)
(0)
SGM Nathan Thomas
Yes Major Habina, you are right about the women who have fought and served in the wars of 1775 and so on. I personally recognize those contributions; however, history has a way of leaving out somethings as well as diminishing the contributions of many. I am talking about the modern forces and how they have operated. I can say that the women were given different jobs in say 1972 when there was the Women Army Corp (WAC). There were no women in the combat arms. There were no women paratroopers. I remember when the first female soldiers came into airborne units and so on. I am talking about the modern mindset that was there. If you want to call it a modern mindset. Even though I have been retired 20 years now, I seen when the changes were happening and when they did away with the WACs and women were integrated into the units with men. So, I do not know if we are on the same sheet of music or one or the other is not grasping what the other is conveying.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next

Infantry
Combat
Training
Women in the Military
Combat Arms
