Posted on Sep 30, 2020
What is your advice on how I should handle working with an ineffective commander who is a long-time comrade/friend/superior?
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Hello RallyPoint, hope everyone is doing well. Unfortunately, I have run afoul recently with a situation involving a comrade/friend/superior. Normally I'd post this on some other site as it is not militarily related (at most, the only thing remotely related to the military is that the friend in question is a veteran himself - a former 0311 marine), but I've run out of sites to go to with advice on this (as many allow very little articulation for an explanation).
SHORT BOTTOMLINE VERSION:
I act as executive officer for an organization, the commanding officer slipped up quite a few times already and the organization itself is going nowhere with the chartered objectives of the organization. I've thought about leaving/resigning, but the men under our charge want me to stay. There's even talk amongst the guys that they want to vote me in as the CO's replacement. I am not a fan of that idea as the CO is not just my superior, but a friend that I've known for the past 11 years (I knew him since he graduated from Pendleton long ago).
Either way, was hoping to get your guys' thoughts and advice on this.
FULL DETAILS:
I won't go into to much details, but I'm part of an all volunteer organization (executive officer/vice president to be exact) that is in the process of transitioning over to a FEMA certified (our individual members are suppose to be certified) organization (at least that was the original plan). Now we're trying to achieve our Red Card (firefighter volunteer certification). Throughout the past 8 years, we've transitioned over to something else three times already (first a decent size paintball/airsoft group, then a real-steel gun club - as we were all avid recreational shooters as well, now to our current form - a volunteer crisis response group). In all those 8 years, we've had not much to show for it. No major recreational events won, no trophies to show for, and even though we want to get our certs - we have yet had any.
Recently, I've also noticed that our designated leader (my immediate superior, the commanding officer/president) of the organization (the one who's been in command ever since we got together years ago) has lost his charisma/charm on me and others. Back then when something went south or didn't go according to plan (which actually happened quite often now that I think about it), I found some of the reasons to lie in his decision-making (or lack thereof). When I did bring up attention to this - along with faults that I owned up to, he'd immediately agree on my flaws, yet (I laugh now thinking about it) when I bought up what I perceived as issues that he himself should've made a call on, he immediately goes on the defensive (calmly at first). Eventually if I ever pushed further on a subject about his lack of decisions or actions, he got pretty red and started cursing me out (to which he would just call it the "heat of the passion"). I laugh more so now because he always kept saying that if we ever felt like he was messing up, to let him now, yet when I provide even the most minor of constructive critiquing, he goes ape-crap crazy.
To be honest, I don't know. I've been friends with the guy for over a decade, other than this, he's a good guy, but he's really starting to screw the pooch here a bit, the only thing he hasn't done yet is sleep with everyone's ladies behind our backs (and I am not using that lightly, he literally let a nobody into our comms without notifying us just because the stranger asked him - probably regaled my friend with how he could try and help us with things. Our CO/Pres legit breached OPSEC with that). And once again, he always says he has an open door policy, yet when anyone of us or us as a group calls him out on something, he either curses everyone out or thinks we're spewing nonsense. As if to add on the juvenility of it, when we did bring forth an issue on him, he just kept going "None of ya went through what I did? What about you XO, you ever gone through Marine Basic? What about you Seniors? Any of you gone through training like that? Didn't think so!". Should one of our jobs be a security detail/base-line tactical stuff, sure - he'd probably be our most knowledgable individual, but other than that, I'm not too sure.
A little tidbit, couple of our senior members bought up the idea of voting on having me replace him, but I doubt I have the heart to do that. I may or may not make better calls than him (I am willing to admit my weaknesses whereas he doesn't), but to screw a friend that I've known for years that way. I don't know, that ain't me. Also the fact that I hate being in the spotlight. These guys are good people, they like our CO/Pres also, but some of his mess ups are wearing on them, too.
I've thought long and hard (yes, in come the jokes) on walking away from this, I've thought about just packing my stuff and heading home for good, but at the same time, a lot of the guys under us are asking me to stay when they heard of that possibility. I've pretty much almost made up my mind that by the time I ship off to basic next year or so, if things haven't changed (if we don't start getting our crap in order and squared away), I'm just gonna resign my post right before shipping off and wish them the best.
Bottomline is that this guy (our CO/Pres) is messing up and I see the group still without direction and going nowhere. I plan on leaving, but the guys under us ask that I stay. They even mentioned voting me in as his replacement, but again, I'm not a fan of that as the man's been my friend for the past 11 years and I myself am not a fan of being in the spotlight.
Anyways, if I could get some advice and thoughts on this from anyone (especially some 0311 marines, both former and current), I'd appreciate it. Thanks guys and I hope you guys are all doing well.
SHORT BOTTOMLINE VERSION:
I act as executive officer for an organization, the commanding officer slipped up quite a few times already and the organization itself is going nowhere with the chartered objectives of the organization. I've thought about leaving/resigning, but the men under our charge want me to stay. There's even talk amongst the guys that they want to vote me in as the CO's replacement. I am not a fan of that idea as the CO is not just my superior, but a friend that I've known for the past 11 years (I knew him since he graduated from Pendleton long ago).
Either way, was hoping to get your guys' thoughts and advice on this.
FULL DETAILS:
I won't go into to much details, but I'm part of an all volunteer organization (executive officer/vice president to be exact) that is in the process of transitioning over to a FEMA certified (our individual members are suppose to be certified) organization (at least that was the original plan). Now we're trying to achieve our Red Card (firefighter volunteer certification). Throughout the past 8 years, we've transitioned over to something else three times already (first a decent size paintball/airsoft group, then a real-steel gun club - as we were all avid recreational shooters as well, now to our current form - a volunteer crisis response group). In all those 8 years, we've had not much to show for it. No major recreational events won, no trophies to show for, and even though we want to get our certs - we have yet had any.
Recently, I've also noticed that our designated leader (my immediate superior, the commanding officer/president) of the organization (the one who's been in command ever since we got together years ago) has lost his charisma/charm on me and others. Back then when something went south or didn't go according to plan (which actually happened quite often now that I think about it), I found some of the reasons to lie in his decision-making (or lack thereof). When I did bring up attention to this - along with faults that I owned up to, he'd immediately agree on my flaws, yet (I laugh now thinking about it) when I bought up what I perceived as issues that he himself should've made a call on, he immediately goes on the defensive (calmly at first). Eventually if I ever pushed further on a subject about his lack of decisions or actions, he got pretty red and started cursing me out (to which he would just call it the "heat of the passion"). I laugh more so now because he always kept saying that if we ever felt like he was messing up, to let him now, yet when I provide even the most minor of constructive critiquing, he goes ape-crap crazy.
To be honest, I don't know. I've been friends with the guy for over a decade, other than this, he's a good guy, but he's really starting to screw the pooch here a bit, the only thing he hasn't done yet is sleep with everyone's ladies behind our backs (and I am not using that lightly, he literally let a nobody into our comms without notifying us just because the stranger asked him - probably regaled my friend with how he could try and help us with things. Our CO/Pres legit breached OPSEC with that). And once again, he always says he has an open door policy, yet when anyone of us or us as a group calls him out on something, he either curses everyone out or thinks we're spewing nonsense. As if to add on the juvenility of it, when we did bring forth an issue on him, he just kept going "None of ya went through what I did? What about you XO, you ever gone through Marine Basic? What about you Seniors? Any of you gone through training like that? Didn't think so!". Should one of our jobs be a security detail/base-line tactical stuff, sure - he'd probably be our most knowledgable individual, but other than that, I'm not too sure.
A little tidbit, couple of our senior members bought up the idea of voting on having me replace him, but I doubt I have the heart to do that. I may or may not make better calls than him (I am willing to admit my weaknesses whereas he doesn't), but to screw a friend that I've known for years that way. I don't know, that ain't me. Also the fact that I hate being in the spotlight. These guys are good people, they like our CO/Pres also, but some of his mess ups are wearing on them, too.
I've thought long and hard (yes, in come the jokes) on walking away from this, I've thought about just packing my stuff and heading home for good, but at the same time, a lot of the guys under us are asking me to stay when they heard of that possibility. I've pretty much almost made up my mind that by the time I ship off to basic next year or so, if things haven't changed (if we don't start getting our crap in order and squared away), I'm just gonna resign my post right before shipping off and wish them the best.
Bottomline is that this guy (our CO/Pres) is messing up and I see the group still without direction and going nowhere. I plan on leaving, but the guys under us ask that I stay. They even mentioned voting me in as his replacement, but again, I'm not a fan of that as the man's been my friend for the past 11 years and I myself am not a fan of being in the spotlight.
Anyways, if I could get some advice and thoughts on this from anyone (especially some 0311 marines, both former and current), I'd appreciate it. Thanks guys and I hope you guys are all doing well.
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 12
Like most (if not everyone) here I stopped reading as soon as I saw how long the post was.
Anyway, I have quite a bit non profit experience, and played a part in turning around a failing organization. Then I stepped away from the Board of Directors after the course had been corrected only to see the organization fall apart again several years later.
Bottom Line:
Non Profit Organizations come and go. Unless you personally are the one executing the actions needed for success you just have to "let it go".
Walk away, and continue the mission elsewhere.
Anyway, I have quite a bit non profit experience, and played a part in turning around a failing organization. Then I stepped away from the Board of Directors after the course had been corrected only to see the organization fall apart again several years later.
Bottom Line:
Non Profit Organizations come and go. Unless you personally are the one executing the actions needed for success you just have to "let it go".
Walk away, and continue the mission elsewhere.
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Jake Lang it appears you answered your own question as you wrote. Decide what is more important. A friendship (does it still exist) or new leadership? If it needs new leadership are you willing to take the responsibility? To me, it sounds like a no. Time to take your toys and go to a place that values what you have to offer.
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Jake Lang
Thank you for that insight, Ma'am. It really should be clean cut dry as that. It just sucks that this was the same guy that took a knife for me (guy attempted to mug us and when we took him down, he took the slash meant for me as he held the guy's arm down).
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