Posted on Sep 30, 2020
What is your advice on how I should handle working with an ineffective commander who is a long-time comrade/friend/superior?
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Hello RallyPoint, hope everyone is doing well. Unfortunately, I have run afoul recently with a situation involving a comrade/friend/superior. Normally I'd post this on some other site as it is not militarily related (at most, the only thing remotely related to the military is that the friend in question is a veteran himself - a former 0311 marine), but I've run out of sites to go to with advice on this (as many allow very little articulation for an explanation).
SHORT BOTTOMLINE VERSION:
I act as executive officer for an organization, the commanding officer slipped up quite a few times already and the organization itself is going nowhere with the chartered objectives of the organization. I've thought about leaving/resigning, but the men under our charge want me to stay. There's even talk amongst the guys that they want to vote me in as the CO's replacement. I am not a fan of that idea as the CO is not just my superior, but a friend that I've known for the past 11 years (I knew him since he graduated from Pendleton long ago).
Either way, was hoping to get your guys' thoughts and advice on this.
FULL DETAILS:
I won't go into to much details, but I'm part of an all volunteer organization (executive officer/vice president to be exact) that is in the process of transitioning over to a FEMA certified (our individual members are suppose to be certified) organization (at least that was the original plan). Now we're trying to achieve our Red Card (firefighter volunteer certification). Throughout the past 8 years, we've transitioned over to something else three times already (first a decent size paintball/airsoft group, then a real-steel gun club - as we were all avid recreational shooters as well, now to our current form - a volunteer crisis response group). In all those 8 years, we've had not much to show for it. No major recreational events won, no trophies to show for, and even though we want to get our certs - we have yet had any.
Recently, I've also noticed that our designated leader (my immediate superior, the commanding officer/president) of the organization (the one who's been in command ever since we got together years ago) has lost his charisma/charm on me and others. Back then when something went south or didn't go according to plan (which actually happened quite often now that I think about it), I found some of the reasons to lie in his decision-making (or lack thereof). When I did bring up attention to this - along with faults that I owned up to, he'd immediately agree on my flaws, yet (I laugh now thinking about it) when I bought up what I perceived as issues that he himself should've made a call on, he immediately goes on the defensive (calmly at first). Eventually if I ever pushed further on a subject about his lack of decisions or actions, he got pretty red and started cursing me out (to which he would just call it the "heat of the passion"). I laugh more so now because he always kept saying that if we ever felt like he was messing up, to let him now, yet when I provide even the most minor of constructive critiquing, he goes ape-crap crazy.
To be honest, I don't know. I've been friends with the guy for over a decade, other than this, he's a good guy, but he's really starting to screw the pooch here a bit, the only thing he hasn't done yet is sleep with everyone's ladies behind our backs (and I am not using that lightly, he literally let a nobody into our comms without notifying us just because the stranger asked him - probably regaled my friend with how he could try and help us with things. Our CO/Pres legit breached OPSEC with that). And once again, he always says he has an open door policy, yet when anyone of us or us as a group calls him out on something, he either curses everyone out or thinks we're spewing nonsense. As if to add on the juvenility of it, when we did bring forth an issue on him, he just kept going "None of ya went through what I did? What about you XO, you ever gone through Marine Basic? What about you Seniors? Any of you gone through training like that? Didn't think so!". Should one of our jobs be a security detail/base-line tactical stuff, sure - he'd probably be our most knowledgable individual, but other than that, I'm not too sure.
A little tidbit, couple of our senior members bought up the idea of voting on having me replace him, but I doubt I have the heart to do that. I may or may not make better calls than him (I am willing to admit my weaknesses whereas he doesn't), but to screw a friend that I've known for years that way. I don't know, that ain't me. Also the fact that I hate being in the spotlight. These guys are good people, they like our CO/Pres also, but some of his mess ups are wearing on them, too.
I've thought long and hard (yes, in come the jokes) on walking away from this, I've thought about just packing my stuff and heading home for good, but at the same time, a lot of the guys under us are asking me to stay when they heard of that possibility. I've pretty much almost made up my mind that by the time I ship off to basic next year or so, if things haven't changed (if we don't start getting our crap in order and squared away), I'm just gonna resign my post right before shipping off and wish them the best.
Bottomline is that this guy (our CO/Pres) is messing up and I see the group still without direction and going nowhere. I plan on leaving, but the guys under us ask that I stay. They even mentioned voting me in as his replacement, but again, I'm not a fan of that as the man's been my friend for the past 11 years and I myself am not a fan of being in the spotlight.
Anyways, if I could get some advice and thoughts on this from anyone (especially some 0311 marines, both former and current), I'd appreciate it. Thanks guys and I hope you guys are all doing well.
SHORT BOTTOMLINE VERSION:
I act as executive officer for an organization, the commanding officer slipped up quite a few times already and the organization itself is going nowhere with the chartered objectives of the organization. I've thought about leaving/resigning, but the men under our charge want me to stay. There's even talk amongst the guys that they want to vote me in as the CO's replacement. I am not a fan of that idea as the CO is not just my superior, but a friend that I've known for the past 11 years (I knew him since he graduated from Pendleton long ago).
Either way, was hoping to get your guys' thoughts and advice on this.
FULL DETAILS:
I won't go into to much details, but I'm part of an all volunteer organization (executive officer/vice president to be exact) that is in the process of transitioning over to a FEMA certified (our individual members are suppose to be certified) organization (at least that was the original plan). Now we're trying to achieve our Red Card (firefighter volunteer certification). Throughout the past 8 years, we've transitioned over to something else three times already (first a decent size paintball/airsoft group, then a real-steel gun club - as we were all avid recreational shooters as well, now to our current form - a volunteer crisis response group). In all those 8 years, we've had not much to show for it. No major recreational events won, no trophies to show for, and even though we want to get our certs - we have yet had any.
Recently, I've also noticed that our designated leader (my immediate superior, the commanding officer/president) of the organization (the one who's been in command ever since we got together years ago) has lost his charisma/charm on me and others. Back then when something went south or didn't go according to plan (which actually happened quite often now that I think about it), I found some of the reasons to lie in his decision-making (or lack thereof). When I did bring up attention to this - along with faults that I owned up to, he'd immediately agree on my flaws, yet (I laugh now thinking about it) when I bought up what I perceived as issues that he himself should've made a call on, he immediately goes on the defensive (calmly at first). Eventually if I ever pushed further on a subject about his lack of decisions or actions, he got pretty red and started cursing me out (to which he would just call it the "heat of the passion"). I laugh more so now because he always kept saying that if we ever felt like he was messing up, to let him now, yet when I provide even the most minor of constructive critiquing, he goes ape-crap crazy.
To be honest, I don't know. I've been friends with the guy for over a decade, other than this, he's a good guy, but he's really starting to screw the pooch here a bit, the only thing he hasn't done yet is sleep with everyone's ladies behind our backs (and I am not using that lightly, he literally let a nobody into our comms without notifying us just because the stranger asked him - probably regaled my friend with how he could try and help us with things. Our CO/Pres legit breached OPSEC with that). And once again, he always says he has an open door policy, yet when anyone of us or us as a group calls him out on something, he either curses everyone out or thinks we're spewing nonsense. As if to add on the juvenility of it, when we did bring forth an issue on him, he just kept going "None of ya went through what I did? What about you XO, you ever gone through Marine Basic? What about you Seniors? Any of you gone through training like that? Didn't think so!". Should one of our jobs be a security detail/base-line tactical stuff, sure - he'd probably be our most knowledgable individual, but other than that, I'm not too sure.
A little tidbit, couple of our senior members bought up the idea of voting on having me replace him, but I doubt I have the heart to do that. I may or may not make better calls than him (I am willing to admit my weaknesses whereas he doesn't), but to screw a friend that I've known for years that way. I don't know, that ain't me. Also the fact that I hate being in the spotlight. These guys are good people, they like our CO/Pres also, but some of his mess ups are wearing on them, too.
I've thought long and hard (yes, in come the jokes) on walking away from this, I've thought about just packing my stuff and heading home for good, but at the same time, a lot of the guys under us are asking me to stay when they heard of that possibility. I've pretty much almost made up my mind that by the time I ship off to basic next year or so, if things haven't changed (if we don't start getting our crap in order and squared away), I'm just gonna resign my post right before shipping off and wish them the best.
Bottomline is that this guy (our CO/Pres) is messing up and I see the group still without direction and going nowhere. I plan on leaving, but the guys under us ask that I stay. They even mentioned voting me in as his replacement, but again, I'm not a fan of that as the man's been my friend for the past 11 years and I myself am not a fan of being in the spotlight.
Anyways, if I could get some advice and thoughts on this from anyone (especially some 0311 marines, both former and current), I'd appreciate it. Thanks guys and I hope you guys are all doing well.
Posted in these groups: 
Toxic Leadership
Organization
Toxic Leadership Organization
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 12
I'm sorry. In all that, there were so many off to the side tangents I lost track. Is there a question in this? Can you shorten this down with a BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT question?
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Jake Lang
My apologies Sergeant. Bottomline is that I'm currently second in charge of a group of volunteers in a crisis response group, my immediate superior (and the overall de facto guy in charge) is screwing up and although he invites criticism, he doesn't take it well since I (and a few others) have pointed them out. I had planned to leave/resign, but a lot of the guys have asked me to stay even though the organization is going nowhere right now. The guys even mentioned voting me in as his replacement, even though I expressed no desire to do so as the man has been a friend of mine for over a decade.
Bottomline question is: What are your thoughts and advice?
Bottomline question is: What are your thoughts and advice?
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MSG (Join to see)
Jake Lang - If you don't want to lead it, and you planned to leave, then go with your initial instinct and pop smoke.
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how big is this organization? it sounds like it's just a small group of guys and you've let this dude stay in charge for far too long. also sounds like you need a leader who can give your group a sense of direction and purpose instead of bouncing from one goal to another without ever achieving anything. You have, IMHO, two options. 1. be the change you desire or 2. pop smoke.
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Jake Lang
We currently have 16 active members and 3 reserve members (although there was once a time when we had near a platoon sized organization). The only reason I have any qualms about leaving is because the rest of the guys have asked me to stay. And although I have major issues with replacing our CO as head of the organization (as I don't like backstabbing friends like that), the thought did pass in thought and I did enjoy the thought of how I would do things differently and how I believe they would change the organization for the better. Thank you for the advice, Sir.
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LTC (Join to see)
Jake Lang - it just sounds like you CO likes the idea of being the boss but either doesn't want to actually do the job or doesn't know how. Curious as to how be came to be in charge?
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Jake Lang
When we originally started out as just a group/club (a paintball/airsoft group), he was the one that bought all members together. There was no vote on the leader, but he made himself de facto leader. Originally we had no qualms about it because he was the one that bought us all together, so we figured that it was only right for him to take charge. Throughout our evolutions/transitions, there were issues that were there, but at the same time, our first two transitions were merely for recreation (even though we also didn't go anywhere with them when we had a chance). His position was never questioned because (even though yes, there were some mess ups) he was a good friend to many of us and the mess ups didn't cost that much at first. He's always been an ass-hat with a superiority complex, but he definitely was able to pull people in with his charisma, the guy's definitely people person (at least when you first meet him). He's definitely one of the vets that wants meaning in life and other things, reach out and build a group/organization for a purpose.
To be honest, him just wanting to be the boss, wouldn't be all that farfetched to me either. I can't help but think that he just wants people around him for his own entertainment. He definitely doesn't view everyone as his equal in a sense as (again) he sees himself as somewhat of an intellectual superior individual. But for those faults, I have yet to find a friend that has been just loyal - if not more so - than he is. I know that's kind of weird, but that's the best way I can put it. He keeps trying to regal us with his grandiose ideas (even though someone else already thought it up), but that's all that they are - ideas.
To be honest, him just wanting to be the boss, wouldn't be all that farfetched to me either. I can't help but think that he just wants people around him for his own entertainment. He definitely doesn't view everyone as his equal in a sense as (again) he sees himself as somewhat of an intellectual superior individual. But for those faults, I have yet to find a friend that has been just loyal - if not more so - than he is. I know that's kind of weird, but that's the best way I can put it. He keeps trying to regal us with his grandiose ideas (even though someone else already thought it up), but that's all that they are - ideas.
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Wow, ok. First? A LOT of stuff in there that no one here needed to know in relation to whatever question you have. Shorten it down by like... 4/5's of what you have. Who is this person in relation to you and what is the problem that you are having with him?
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Jake Lang
My apologies SSG G, my fiancee got off early from work and requested a pick up right in the middle of this long essay I wrote.
The main beef is that the organization that I'm acting as XO for is going nowhere, the CO (who has also been my friend for the past 11 years) is messing up quite a bit. I at first thought about leaving/resigning as I felt it was pointless to stay (again, because we are going nowhere and due to our CO screwing the pooch a few times), but the guys under us asked me to stay, they even bought up the idea of voting me in as the CO's replacement, which I am not a fan of because the guy's been a friend of mine for the past 11 years.
Main question is: What are your thoughts and advice for this kind of situation.
The main beef is that the organization that I'm acting as XO for is going nowhere, the CO (who has also been my friend for the past 11 years) is messing up quite a bit. I at first thought about leaving/resigning as I felt it was pointless to stay (again, because we are going nowhere and due to our CO screwing the pooch a few times), but the guys under us asked me to stay, they even bought up the idea of voting me in as the CO's replacement, which I am not a fan of because the guy's been a friend of mine for the past 11 years.
Main question is: What are your thoughts and advice for this kind of situation.
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SSG Brian G.
First off, is it even that kind of business structure? Most, in fact none that I know of are that way.
Second, heavy is the head that wears the crown. It's part of leadership. If the guy is screwing the pooch and things are suffering for it, then that needs to be addressed with him and in such a way where he cannot duck that ball. You do it by showing where it was his decision to do or implement X and this was the result. Friends are great and all but this is business.
Second, heavy is the head that wears the crown. It's part of leadership. If the guy is screwing the pooch and things are suffering for it, then that needs to be addressed with him and in such a way where he cannot duck that ball. You do it by showing where it was his decision to do or implement X and this was the result. Friends are great and all but this is business.
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Jake Lang
Ah again, my apologies SSG G, it's more of a volunteer group mostly, if there's an earthquake or (more recently) a wildfire, we're to go an assist as volunteers (right after we get our certs...to which we have yet still obtain because our CO believes we are going to fast). To top it off, he keeps wanting us to jump to different certs before we even finish them (which to be honest...drives me up the freaking wall at times), we almost finished our baseline medical skills certs, but due to the recent wildfires in California, he now wants to move to getting our Red Cards (firefighter assistance certs) - which I am all for...as long as we finish our medical certs first. But no, he insists that we get on the Red Card certs double-time. His issue is that he believes that he is some sort of intellectually superior individual in which no one is smart enough to understand him or his ideas (otherwise, he wouldn't have shot down every solution we proposed and we'd probably be actually certified on a few things and get things done).
To even add on that part, I proposed we give our guys our version of basic training since a lot of these certs require physical fitness and some know-how on certain things, but he said that would have to come later (he basically wants to be at step 24 already when we haven't even started on step 1 yet). I used as an example how (since he was in the Marines and I figured this analogy would serve best) that no recruit goes to Infantry School before Basic, and he simply retorted with "Hah Basic, something I actually went through and you didn't, you're funny."...Not gonna lie, I legit had a WTF moment right there and he said that we needed to jump on every opportunity ASAP.
If I may ask SSG G, how would one bring the hammer down on a person when all they do is find excuses? He's the type of guy that finds an excuse for any accusation, if I showed him a whole list of mess ups, his excuses would range from "Yeah, I had work that day" all the way to "Bro, I was just not feeling it that day".
To even add on that part, I proposed we give our guys our version of basic training since a lot of these certs require physical fitness and some know-how on certain things, but he said that would have to come later (he basically wants to be at step 24 already when we haven't even started on step 1 yet). I used as an example how (since he was in the Marines and I figured this analogy would serve best) that no recruit goes to Infantry School before Basic, and he simply retorted with "Hah Basic, something I actually went through and you didn't, you're funny."...Not gonna lie, I legit had a WTF moment right there and he said that we needed to jump on every opportunity ASAP.
If I may ask SSG G, how would one bring the hammer down on a person when all they do is find excuses? He's the type of guy that finds an excuse for any accusation, if I showed him a whole list of mess ups, his excuses would range from "Yeah, I had work that day" all the way to "Bro, I was just not feeling it that day".
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LTC (Join to see)
Jake Lang - bottom line: sounds like he is an ineffective leader at best and if you want your group to actually ever accomplish anything you need to replace him.
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This is all over the place.
This is just a bunch of volunteers who voted a majority leader or is this a legitimate organization with a legal and administrative structure? You keep using terms like President, VP, CEO, CO, XO, etc but it seems like a loosely managed group of volunteers.
I'm also curious why you zeroed in on 0311's as the demographic you want advice from when the environments and unit structures are night and day different.
With that all said here it goes. If this is a structured organization with rules, bylaws and a management plan that allows for new leadership to be installed just work within that space.
But my guess this is just a volunteer group of like minded individuals who allowed this guy to be the leader up until this point because the original idea was their baby. The problem you will run into is that this guy considers his idea as part of his identity just like a band. You could try to remove him from his position but you need to weigh the pro/con of it. If this is just a volunteer group with no investments other than time just start a new group without the toxic leader.
But if you have invested intertest in the group with equipment, money etc and you need to salvage that then you guys need to have it made into a legitimate non profit with bylaws that allow you to protect your baby the right way so one guy can dominate the narrative like this.
This is just a bunch of volunteers who voted a majority leader or is this a legitimate organization with a legal and administrative structure? You keep using terms like President, VP, CEO, CO, XO, etc but it seems like a loosely managed group of volunteers.
I'm also curious why you zeroed in on 0311's as the demographic you want advice from when the environments and unit structures are night and day different.
With that all said here it goes. If this is a structured organization with rules, bylaws and a management plan that allows for new leadership to be installed just work within that space.
But my guess this is just a volunteer group of like minded individuals who allowed this guy to be the leader up until this point because the original idea was their baby. The problem you will run into is that this guy considers his idea as part of his identity just like a band. You could try to remove him from his position but you need to weigh the pro/con of it. If this is just a volunteer group with no investments other than time just start a new group without the toxic leader.
But if you have invested intertest in the group with equipment, money etc and you need to salvage that then you guys need to have it made into a legitimate non profit with bylaws that allow you to protect your baby the right way so one guy can dominate the narrative like this.
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Jake Lang
Not really trying to zero in on 0311's, reason being was that not much tags I could throw in on this, so I figured I'd throw that one in as he was a former 0311.
As far as organization goes, we were pretty structured, but with any transition, we had to change up the structure a bit (at least that was our CO's views). There's our CO, me as XO, and we have multiple teams (sized like a fireteam, anywhere from 3 to 5 members. Sadly membership has been cut down a bit since some have left because of things like this). We had bylaws, but again, transitioning required a change/amending some of them (again, even though I thought they needed to be only tweaked a bit, CO wanted to change a few things entirely). We held a vote on every transition but that was pretty much the only thing voted on. The reason why our CO is our CO now is because we're a group of friends and associates that started out as paintball/airsoft group that then transitioned over as a real-steel shooting club, and now to our current form of a crisis response group. Our CO became head-guy from the start since he originally thought of the idea of banding everyone together. All transitions were voted on, but they were always proposed by our CO as he always thought our previous forms of evolution were pointless.
As far as investments go, we did do quite the investment in finances as membership dues were a thing back in the past (we had some activities as a group that required monetary effort), but our coffer has stay at it's current amount for the past (I would say at least) 4 or 5 years. As far as invested personal interest, these are my brothers (a term that many of us - including our CO used to describe ourselves), although I have little interest in starting a political coup to usurp our CO - who has been my friend for the past 11 years, he has been messing up quite the bit and I would feel guilty for leaving (which is a plan that I am leaning towards a bit) because a lot of the guys under us want me to stay.
As far as organization goes, we were pretty structured, but with any transition, we had to change up the structure a bit (at least that was our CO's views). There's our CO, me as XO, and we have multiple teams (sized like a fireteam, anywhere from 3 to 5 members. Sadly membership has been cut down a bit since some have left because of things like this). We had bylaws, but again, transitioning required a change/amending some of them (again, even though I thought they needed to be only tweaked a bit, CO wanted to change a few things entirely). We held a vote on every transition but that was pretty much the only thing voted on. The reason why our CO is our CO now is because we're a group of friends and associates that started out as paintball/airsoft group that then transitioned over as a real-steel shooting club, and now to our current form of a crisis response group. Our CO became head-guy from the start since he originally thought of the idea of banding everyone together. All transitions were voted on, but they were always proposed by our CO as he always thought our previous forms of evolution were pointless.
As far as investments go, we did do quite the investment in finances as membership dues were a thing back in the past (we had some activities as a group that required monetary effort), but our coffer has stay at it's current amount for the past (I would say at least) 4 or 5 years. As far as invested personal interest, these are my brothers (a term that many of us - including our CO used to describe ourselves), although I have little interest in starting a political coup to usurp our CO - who has been my friend for the past 11 years, he has been messing up quite the bit and I would feel guilty for leaving (which is a plan that I am leaning towards a bit) because a lot of the guys under us want me to stay.
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
Jake Lang - Thanks for the clarification. With that said it seems that you have bylaws and legal infrastructure to lean on as long as their is documentation to the allegations. It falls down to you and your desire to go through this. It will be ugly and toes will be stepped on but if it's that bad somebody will have to do the deed regardless who steps up.
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Jake Lang
And as fate would have it, as next to full senior, seems it would be my responsibility. Thanks for the thoughts, Staff Sergeant.
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I'm trying to see what your goal is. Are you trying to save the organization, your friendship, or both.
How long has your organization been in its third evolution, because honestly it seems like you are a bunch of friends trying to organize into doing something none of you have expertise in. That is fine to do if you have sat down and written out a POA&M to properly set up the organization and understand how you are going to function. If an executive is not acting in the best interest of an organization you can replace them or move on. if you want to maintain the relationship you can possibly still play paintball together. But it is time to take a realistic look at what is going on within your organization, its set up and goals. I recommend you step back the organization to a previous evolution and properly identify how to move forward.
How long has your organization been in its third evolution, because honestly it seems like you are a bunch of friends trying to organize into doing something none of you have expertise in. That is fine to do if you have sat down and written out a POA&M to properly set up the organization and understand how you are going to function. If an executive is not acting in the best interest of an organization you can replace them or move on. if you want to maintain the relationship you can possibly still play paintball together. But it is time to take a realistic look at what is going on within your organization, its set up and goals. I recommend you step back the organization to a previous evolution and properly identify how to move forward.
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Jake Lang
Thank you Staff Sergeant. Our organization has went through only three evolutions, the current one of which we've spent a year as a crisis response group, but at this time, we have no certs or anything of that nature, merely our medical, security, and technical experience in our respective fields. We have sat down and everyone agreed on the charter we made (which was to voluntarily assist in crisis events), but we have yet to even touch on those objectives.
I and a couple of the senior-most members have bought forth (at least what we believe to be) solutions to further our group (getting in contact with FEMA, seeing if we can sit-in for some classes offered by FEMA approved instructors, purchasing new gear like fire-axes, fire extinguishers, portable and rechargeable defibrillators, etc.), but our CO always shoots them down and then presents his idea for a solution or says that we're going to fast. I usually dual role as XO and advisor for the guy, but never once has he taken my advice (or those of any others). Which is fine...if his solutions actually did anything. Sadly, the group seems to be going nowhere (same feeling as with our previous evolutions). It's getting to a point where I thought about hanging up my title as XO, packing my bags, and heading home finally, but the guys under us have asked me to stay (to the point where one of our senior-most members begged me to as he said "You're the main reason why this group hasn't gone complete crap yet, yeah the CO makes the calls, but you've always been there to unscrew us out of a situation"). They have played with the idea of voting me in to replace him as CO, but again, I hate that idea, the man's been a friend of mine for over a decade and I don't like pulling that crap on a friend. Not to mention, the CO gets all the unwanted attention.
I and a couple of the senior-most members have bought forth (at least what we believe to be) solutions to further our group (getting in contact with FEMA, seeing if we can sit-in for some classes offered by FEMA approved instructors, purchasing new gear like fire-axes, fire extinguishers, portable and rechargeable defibrillators, etc.), but our CO always shoots them down and then presents his idea for a solution or says that we're going to fast. I usually dual role as XO and advisor for the guy, but never once has he taken my advice (or those of any others). Which is fine...if his solutions actually did anything. Sadly, the group seems to be going nowhere (same feeling as with our previous evolutions). It's getting to a point where I thought about hanging up my title as XO, packing my bags, and heading home finally, but the guys under us have asked me to stay (to the point where one of our senior-most members begged me to as he said "You're the main reason why this group hasn't gone complete crap yet, yeah the CO makes the calls, but you've always been there to unscrew us out of a situation"). They have played with the idea of voting me in to replace him as CO, but again, I hate that idea, the man's been a friend of mine for over a decade and I don't like pulling that crap on a friend. Not to mention, the CO gets all the unwanted attention.
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SSgt (Join to see)
you have identified that the organizations CO has been ineffectual at progressing the organization. Your options, step down and walk away, replace the CO yourself, or remove the CO while the organization looks outside for someone with experience managing this type of organization; which allows you to stay or go.
I could dive into asking if your board is briefed by the accountant at every meeting to try and understand why purchase requests are being denied; if they directly support the organization's mission statement. As far as moving to fast the CO may have a valid point. if members are not adequately trained and certified in the employment of the materials, it makes sense to peruse certification first.
I could dive into asking if your board is briefed by the accountant at every meeting to try and understand why purchase requests are being denied; if they directly support the organization's mission statement. As far as moving to fast the CO may have a valid point. if members are not adequately trained and certified in the employment of the materials, it makes sense to peruse certification first.
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Jake Lang
That's just the thing Staff Sergeant, I was the one who proposed the idea of giving our guys our own version of basic training, because yes - some of these certs do require you to be physically fit and some technical know-how on certain things, but once again, the CO has deemed it "unnecessary" and "it would force our efforts elsewhere other than needed". As far as the accountant goes, he has reiterated our coffer (the financial status of each member) is capable of making such financial transactions, but the CO keeps wanting to lookout for other gear. The only thing we've approved of purchase so far were our rucks, but we're still waiting on e-tools (which I've given many suggestions for - some of which were brands that the military itself uses, but they don't seem to be up to par for our CO), respirators and air tanks for breathing (a friend of mine who's been a firefighter for over 14 years, gave us some suggestions, but again, our CO questions the validity of my friend's claims, again his intellectual superiority complex), god, the only thing he's excited about purchasing right now are a set of new utility uniform for the group, which cost a freaking fortune for just one set. Some Eastern European company that has his attention, the only problem is is that a pair of trousers cost somewhere between $230 to $340...yes, just for one pair of trousers (don't even get me started on the blouse). I recommended Propper (another utility clothing brand, which is quite more affordable), but he complained how he blew his crotch out so many times with that brand (which makes me question whether it was the brand or the fact that he likes to wear his trousers long). His reasoning is that for that price he wouldn't need to worry about reliability.
My apologies for ranting Staff Sergeant, but just remembering the conversations he and I had drove me up the wall crazy again. We're talking about the same guy that complained that body armor was useless in the military cause even the enemy on numerous occasions has worn it too. Thank you for your time Staff Sergeant.
My apologies for ranting Staff Sergeant, but just remembering the conversations he and I had drove me up the wall crazy again. We're talking about the same guy that complained that body armor was useless in the military cause even the enemy on numerous occasions has worn it too. Thank you for your time Staff Sergeant.
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My suggestion is roll a frag under his butt, I know not funny, even when they happened in Nam.
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SPC Kerry Good
Shit faced along with entire bod. Funny now thinking about it but no water where we were at so I stayed pretty much friendless for another week until we got out into rice paddies for bath.
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Sounds like you may need to choose a priority, your friendship or this organization.
If the others in the organization vote him out, that's not on you. The organization has priorities and goals that are not being met and sounds like it needs new leadership. If your friend no longer has the organization's goals in mind, he should be removed from his role.
As a friend, you have tried to bring things to his attention and it was not productive. You have to give yourself credit that your made an attempt and move on. You cannot force others to change.
Either way, your friend will probably be angry at first. Hopefully overtime he will be able to reflect and understand other's point of view.
If the others in the organization vote him out, that's not on you. The organization has priorities and goals that are not being met and sounds like it needs new leadership. If your friend no longer has the organization's goals in mind, he should be removed from his role.
As a friend, you have tried to bring things to his attention and it was not productive. You have to give yourself credit that your made an attempt and move on. You cannot force others to change.
Either way, your friend will probably be angry at first. Hopefully overtime he will be able to reflect and understand other's point of view.
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Jake Lang
Thank you, Sir. It is true that if he should be voted out, it would be on him. That actually will help take the guilt away if I were to replace him. Again, thank you, Sir.
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Pop smoke and avoid the drama, when you leave others will follow. You will never get this guy out, so don't waste the efforts. If he can't acknowledge his flaws then walk away. Just because he went to USMC boot camp doesn't by itself, make him a leader.
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Jake Lang
That insight actually does help calm my thoughts about leaving. Still a decision to be made eventually. Thank you, Sir.
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Jake Lang
I couldn't help but laugh at a thought I just had, remembering what you said Chief. As much as people can agree that USMC boot camp itself wouldn't make him a leader, I know well enough that he would start with "Well I wouldn't disagree with you on that" then he would follow with "but it does give you certain traits and qualities that emulate a leader" (to which I agree to certain extents), but I just can't help chuckling at that thought because I know that's how he would reply. Had to share that as it tickled my humor. Thanks again, Sir.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
If that line was used on me, my comeback would be along the lines of "learning a language that is a akin to "Taz" would not be something I would put on my resume.
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Bit of an update to the current situation, apparently the stranger who our CO invited (because he was a friend our CO and he thought the guy would be a good set of eyes and ears in our AO, even though he's from the opposite coast) to our comms system/network. Somehow he was able to breach our secured comms for certified members only (which is supposed to be locked out to anyone who isn't...well...a "certified members"...), he then proceeded to retrieve sensitive information (i.e. personal social media accounts, emails, etc.) of current members. This issue actually turned a couple of senior members away and now has some of the guys fuming.
I personally already gotten off of the comms system/network for good since our little friend (the stranger himself) was added on since I considered him a possible liability, but the rest of the guys (especially the ones with their info now out), are fuming like tea kettles. This wasn't the biggest mess up our CO did, but it was the most recent. The guys bought forth the issue to me and I then to the CO. The CO...<sigh>...then proceeded to say something along the lines of "So? Their online info got out, it's all public knowledge anyways, not like they're gonna get stalked in person." (something of his usual response). I then proceeded to press the issue with "Dude...their info got out...emails, FB account, instagram, twitter, etc." to which he proceeded to say "Again...so? If it was some complete stranger that actually intended to harm us, then yeah, but the guy's not, he's a friend of mine." (which to be fair, when we called the stranger out on it, he apologized and said that he didn't know it was off limits, and that he has deleted such info from his computer/history). When I tried to make him see the gravity of the situation and why we shouldn't be making the comms network public, he then got red and said "Everyone of ya gets pissed at this for no reason, 'F' it fine, let's bring it to the table then!" and we bought everyone to the table the day after (an emergency meeting).
At this meeting, first thing he does is put everyone on blast about it and complains that we're whining and complaining over nothing. In the end (and after a lot of yelling from both sides), he said "Fine, let's vote on it, but I have one stipulation - JUST ONE! - if he is voted out of comms, you guys are the ones doing it!" (basically telling us to clean his mistake for him...least in my view). Then it calmed after his girlfriend arrived and calmed him down and threw her opinion with us. It just ended with us postponing the vote for booting his friend out of comms by the end of the week.
Sorry for ranting again, but I'm not sure how to go about this anymore. There were rumors and ideas of voting him out, now there's definitely talk of it. While I really want to etch the phrase "common sense" or the word "intellect" onto a sledgehammer and treat him to a game of whack-a-mole (...I joke...ish), I remind myself of the time he took a knife for me, picked me up when I got left behind in the middle of a nowhere desert in Victorville at 2 in the morning, and when we got cornered by some ghetto-bangers and how we kept getting the other guy off of either of us and laid them straight flat on their asses. I know the paths/choices in front of me, but there is fog in front me (so to speak).
Anyways, figured I'd give you guys an update. Thanks for the support so far.
I personally already gotten off of the comms system/network for good since our little friend (the stranger himself) was added on since I considered him a possible liability, but the rest of the guys (especially the ones with their info now out), are fuming like tea kettles. This wasn't the biggest mess up our CO did, but it was the most recent. The guys bought forth the issue to me and I then to the CO. The CO...<sigh>...then proceeded to say something along the lines of "So? Their online info got out, it's all public knowledge anyways, not like they're gonna get stalked in person." (something of his usual response). I then proceeded to press the issue with "Dude...their info got out...emails, FB account, instagram, twitter, etc." to which he proceeded to say "Again...so? If it was some complete stranger that actually intended to harm us, then yeah, but the guy's not, he's a friend of mine." (which to be fair, when we called the stranger out on it, he apologized and said that he didn't know it was off limits, and that he has deleted such info from his computer/history). When I tried to make him see the gravity of the situation and why we shouldn't be making the comms network public, he then got red and said "Everyone of ya gets pissed at this for no reason, 'F' it fine, let's bring it to the table then!" and we bought everyone to the table the day after (an emergency meeting).
At this meeting, first thing he does is put everyone on blast about it and complains that we're whining and complaining over nothing. In the end (and after a lot of yelling from both sides), he said "Fine, let's vote on it, but I have one stipulation - JUST ONE! - if he is voted out of comms, you guys are the ones doing it!" (basically telling us to clean his mistake for him...least in my view). Then it calmed after his girlfriend arrived and calmed him down and threw her opinion with us. It just ended with us postponing the vote for booting his friend out of comms by the end of the week.
Sorry for ranting again, but I'm not sure how to go about this anymore. There were rumors and ideas of voting him out, now there's definitely talk of it. While I really want to etch the phrase "common sense" or the word "intellect" onto a sledgehammer and treat him to a game of whack-a-mole (...I joke...ish), I remind myself of the time he took a knife for me, picked me up when I got left behind in the middle of a nowhere desert in Victorville at 2 in the morning, and when we got cornered by some ghetto-bangers and how we kept getting the other guy off of either of us and laid them straight flat on their asses. I know the paths/choices in front of me, but there is fog in front me (so to speak).
Anyways, figured I'd give you guys an update. Thanks for the support so far.
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Commander? Of a loosely organized civilian organization? Call for the vote! Get him gone or get on your own horse!
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