Posted on Jun 14, 2018
What is your opinion on Donald Trump agreeing to cease all US/ROK joint training exercises?
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I want honest opinions about President Trump's recent promises to Kim Jong Un that we would cease all US/ROK joint training and statement to the American people that we will save a lot of money by not having bombers fly from Guam to the Korean Peninsula for training missions. Is that the sort of thing you expect from a strong POTUS?
Donald Trump
North Korea
South Korea
National Security
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 21
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People need to think about this for a minute.
We’ve been doing joint exercises with South Korea for how many decades? If the troops there don’t know how to do it by now, wtf. And if North Korea starts acting up again, we can always start up exercises and war games again.
Additionally, what has upholding the status quo for all these decades gotten us? A third generation dictator on the cusp of nuclear weapons with global strike capability.
Maybe it’s time for a change in how we do things. Now hypothetically, 4 months from now, and there have been no recent US/ROK war games, and North Korea pulls a Pearl Harbor on the South. I have a hunch that despite our lack of recent joint war games, South Korea and the United States will know how to react accordingly.
Call me cynical but it’s also possible that some people are so up in arms about cancelling the exercises only because they have vested interests in upholding the status quo. Exercises tend justify budgets, justify purposes, justify roles, justify existences, justify personal egos, etc.
1SG Javier "Elvis" Martinez - thoughts?
We’ve been doing joint exercises with South Korea for how many decades? If the troops there don’t know how to do it by now, wtf. And if North Korea starts acting up again, we can always start up exercises and war games again.
Additionally, what has upholding the status quo for all these decades gotten us? A third generation dictator on the cusp of nuclear weapons with global strike capability.
Maybe it’s time for a change in how we do things. Now hypothetically, 4 months from now, and there have been no recent US/ROK war games, and North Korea pulls a Pearl Harbor on the South. I have a hunch that despite our lack of recent joint war games, South Korea and the United States will know how to react accordingly.
Call me cynical but it’s also possible that some people are so up in arms about cancelling the exercises only because they have vested interests in upholding the status quo. Exercises tend justify budgets, justify purposes, justify roles, justify existences, justify personal egos, etc.
1SG Javier "Elvis" Martinez - thoughts?
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SGT (Join to see)
CPT George Langley - I’m sorry you took my response for mockery. Quite the opposite. If you took that as an insult to any of our troops... unfortunately, your understanding of insults is comparable to that of the military industrial complex or Italian military history.
As I feel your point is lacking, I used hyperbole, or some exaggeration, to demonstrate why I think your point is lacking. In fact, if you read what I wrote, I directly said that our forces would NOT be banging around aimlessly saying crazy things.
I guess we have to disagree on Italy. However you may rationalize it, there are no amount of exercises that Italy could have done to unf*ck themselves to achieve their goals. Their leadership wouldn’t acknowledge their problems. Even if they did acknowledge any problems that exercises revealed, they had absolutely no means in which to remedy those problems to the scale necessary to achieve their aims. No matter what they did, Mussolini would have simply declared them to be a powerhouse. (As that is the nature of bullies. It’s as true on the playground as it is in the geopolitical arena). A lightbulb wasn’t going to go if in his because of some exercises. “Whoops, maybe we’re NOT ready to do this.” Nope. That simply wouldn’t have happened.
Again, your original tone compared the cancellation of some war games with one Ally to a complete dumpster fire of a regime that lasted a handful of years over 70 years ago. I disagree. Completely. Situations aren’t comparable. Poor analogy. Not the same league. Not even in the same sport.
Now, what I think is going to happen (because the military industrial complex works for everyone on both sides) is that NK is not going denuclearize to the satisfication of the President. They have a proud tradition of not upholding their end of agreements. And sure enough, exercises will be back on, saber rattling will commence, and all will be right in the world again.
But, it’s worth a shot. So, I’m willing to give it a chance, as a few missed war games won’t lead to the collapse of PACOM, or whatever it’s about to get renamed to.
As I feel your point is lacking, I used hyperbole, or some exaggeration, to demonstrate why I think your point is lacking. In fact, if you read what I wrote, I directly said that our forces would NOT be banging around aimlessly saying crazy things.
I guess we have to disagree on Italy. However you may rationalize it, there are no amount of exercises that Italy could have done to unf*ck themselves to achieve their goals. Their leadership wouldn’t acknowledge their problems. Even if they did acknowledge any problems that exercises revealed, they had absolutely no means in which to remedy those problems to the scale necessary to achieve their aims. No matter what they did, Mussolini would have simply declared them to be a powerhouse. (As that is the nature of bullies. It’s as true on the playground as it is in the geopolitical arena). A lightbulb wasn’t going to go if in his because of some exercises. “Whoops, maybe we’re NOT ready to do this.” Nope. That simply wouldn’t have happened.
Again, your original tone compared the cancellation of some war games with one Ally to a complete dumpster fire of a regime that lasted a handful of years over 70 years ago. I disagree. Completely. Situations aren’t comparable. Poor analogy. Not the same league. Not even in the same sport.
Now, what I think is going to happen (because the military industrial complex works for everyone on both sides) is that NK is not going denuclearize to the satisfication of the President. They have a proud tradition of not upholding their end of agreements. And sure enough, exercises will be back on, saber rattling will commence, and all will be right in the world again.
But, it’s worth a shot. So, I’m willing to give it a chance, as a few missed war games won’t lead to the collapse of PACOM, or whatever it’s about to get renamed to.
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CPT George Langley
We have actually come to total agreement, and I am agreeing with you. I see now that the Italian arrogance from the top was worse than just the failure to train, and any failures found in training would have been covered up, anyway. You and several others have told me quite reasonably that we and ROK soldiers will continue to train, but without the showy and provocative live fire exercise that makes the Ulchi series of annual training known to everybody in Korea, North and South. The same quality of training at all levels will continue quietly, and live fire training can be conducted at lower unit levels and spread out during the year. Nothing lost, unless we do a massive and possibly irreversible pullout of our troops from the ROK. Thank you for your patience with me.
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SGT (Join to see)
1SG Javier "Elvis" Martinez - agreed. I think people are making too much out of nothing on this issue. I think the major, routine show of force war games are just as much about feeding into the military industrial complex as they are for actually maintaining war fighting readiness. They’re done just to do them and keep people paid and budgets justified. And those are not good reasons for doing them.
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SGT (Join to see)
1SG Javier "Elvis" Martinez - I try to call it as it is. A trait that unfortunately, is not always appreciated. I hope you and yours have a safe and quiet day today, my friend.
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