Posted on Jan 14, 2014
What is your opinion on the Army Motorcycle Policy and regulations?
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I have just started riding again after 10 years, I used to ride dirt bikes. I have heard from many Motorcycle rider, experience and inexperienced, that there are two kinds of riders, those who have dropped their bikes and those who have not yet dropped their bike. I don't know if it is a Army wide policy or just a Fort Hood policy, but if you drop your bike for any reason (even if you drop it pushing it into your garage in your own driveway), you get grounded for three months or more before they will make a decision on what to do and then you have to go through the BRC again. I asked a friend of mine, a Marine what their policy is, I was told there really is no policy, just follow the rules of the state you are in. So what is your opinion the policy is? Are other Army Bases this strict, or is it just Fort Hood?
A post has been put out, and I question the same. If a motorcyclist must retake the BRC if they get into an accident, should it be the same for someone driving a car to take drivers training, weather it be their fault or not?
Update
I realize I may not have been clear in my post, I did not post exactly what happened because I did not feel was relavent and I wanted it to be short and to the point. I just wanted to get the basic how do you feel about policies. With some comments that have been made, Im thinking I should have just posted what happened.
So I am not at Hood anymore, when this incident happend, I was about 2 or 3 months from PCS. When I spoke on dropping it in your garage, it was just for example of a possible incident to get grounded for. I just started riding again, purchased a used bike, and still getting used to the controls. I was in a half empty parking lot at lunch, no cars driving around, I was driving about 2mph, I started to turn one way and decided I didn't want to go that way, stalled the bike; since I was in a slight lean, it cause my bike to drop (first and only time since I started riding again). No property damage, the bike was not damaged, I was not injured. I was honest with my mentor about what happend, though nobody saw that I know of, he had to report it. An investigation was opened up, I was denied to see the BG CDR to state my case. I even have an email where my BN CDR said I can start riding again, and then he took it back. I was enrolled in the BRC at Hood, and someone kept cancelling my reservation. At this time I have been in about 10 years, I have never been to IG, and they wouldn't help me out. The rumor, what I hear from who I feel is a very reliable sources, is that the commanding III Corps General (during this time period) hates motorcycles and has made strict policy because so, and if one of the prior 3 Generals (who were motorcyle enthusiasts) were still in command, this very likely would be pretty much a life lesson. I think that clears things up a bit, I appologize for any misunderstanding.
A post has been put out, and I question the same. If a motorcyclist must retake the BRC if they get into an accident, should it be the same for someone driving a car to take drivers training, weather it be their fault or not?
Update
I realize I may not have been clear in my post, I did not post exactly what happened because I did not feel was relavent and I wanted it to be short and to the point. I just wanted to get the basic how do you feel about policies. With some comments that have been made, Im thinking I should have just posted what happened.
So I am not at Hood anymore, when this incident happend, I was about 2 or 3 months from PCS. When I spoke on dropping it in your garage, it was just for example of a possible incident to get grounded for. I just started riding again, purchased a used bike, and still getting used to the controls. I was in a half empty parking lot at lunch, no cars driving around, I was driving about 2mph, I started to turn one way and decided I didn't want to go that way, stalled the bike; since I was in a slight lean, it cause my bike to drop (first and only time since I started riding again). No property damage, the bike was not damaged, I was not injured. I was honest with my mentor about what happend, though nobody saw that I know of, he had to report it. An investigation was opened up, I was denied to see the BG CDR to state my case. I even have an email where my BN CDR said I can start riding again, and then he took it back. I was enrolled in the BRC at Hood, and someone kept cancelling my reservation. At this time I have been in about 10 years, I have never been to IG, and they wouldn't help me out. The rumor, what I hear from who I feel is a very reliable sources, is that the commanding III Corps General (during this time period) hates motorcycles and has made strict policy because so, and if one of the prior 3 Generals (who were motorcyle enthusiasts) were still in command, this very likely would be pretty much a life lesson. I think that clears things up a bit, I appologize for any misunderstanding.
Motorcycles
Regulation
Army
Policy
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 18
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See if you can take the advanced course it won't hurt anything and you might learn something. I had to take it at two different post I learned something new each time and uncle sugar pays for it.
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I went to Korea and shipped my bike I was not supposed to ship it but did. When I got there I found out why there was a BN policy that said no on in the BN could operate or ride on a 2 wheeled vechial. I used a letter of exception to policy in order to ride. That was because when the BN commander was there as a company commander 12 people died on the little 100 cc bikes in a year. I had no accidents or tickets my time there.
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BRC only needs to be taken once, ever. If the commander feels retraining is required then there are refresher courses. The refresher courses are required after 180 day deployment.
The Army regulations in AR 385-10, arent that bad. It's the installations and units that make riding such a pain. For example, why do I need to show my BRC card when I come through a gate? POV drivers arent showing their accident avoidance card. Some posts still require reflective vests while most dont. When 3rd ID was still on Benning, you did not have to wear anything reflective on post, unless you rode on Kelley hill.
No one has actual numbers to back up their policies. How many accidents vs injuries. They look at national highway administration numbers, but those do not account for a lot of variables. So they look at old, incomplete data and create archaic policies that in the end, dont actually make anyone safer or ride like a responsible adult unless the rider wishes to.
The Army regulations in AR 385-10, arent that bad. It's the installations and units that make riding such a pain. For example, why do I need to show my BRC card when I come through a gate? POV drivers arent showing their accident avoidance card. Some posts still require reflective vests while most dont. When 3rd ID was still on Benning, you did not have to wear anything reflective on post, unless you rode on Kelley hill.
No one has actual numbers to back up their policies. How many accidents vs injuries. They look at national highway administration numbers, but those do not account for a lot of variables. So they look at old, incomplete data and create archaic policies that in the end, dont actually make anyone safer or ride like a responsible adult unless the rider wishes to.
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SGT (Join to see) " I don't know if it is a Army wide policy or just a Fort Hood policy, but if you drop your bike for any reason (even if you drop it pushing it into your garage in your own driveway), you get grounded for three months or more before they will make a decision on what to do and then you have to go through the BRC again."
So just a little insight into your several year old post I just happened upon.
While I cant comment on what you, your unit experienced with a delay in crash review... I can say, for absolute certainty, when you posted this 2014 the policy was if you crashed you were required to report it, and not ride again until a review was done.. the review, done by the local commander / leader in your chain of command and must be done within 7 days// the 1st 05 in your CofC must interview the Sm and crash before the rider may ride again.. there is no time limit.. it can be done the same day, next week or 4 weeks.. if a Unit LTC is delaying the interview....that's a local issue to be dealt woith. It is neither a policy or expectations from higher to delay the review.. in fact just the opposite,,, it was encouraged to interview the SM as soon as possible.
The AAR would later be briefed to the 1st O6 in the chain of command ... but it was not a requirement to ride again..
There is no 3 months or more delay.. unless your lower level, local commander O5 is delaying the process.
I sat many dozens of these reviews along with 1CD safety, and the ADCM, ADCS and chief of staff monthly.
Rarely was a SM required to do more than a check ride with the unit motorcycle mentore before they could return to riding. That means when we sat a review on Tuesday... less than 30 days post reported accident the rider could have been back on the bike already by then...unless the local commander was stalling. If its longer than that, there was criminal activity involved in the crash or the unit is causing a delay.
DOD policy
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/605504p.pdf
Fort Hood Motorcycle safety policy
http://www.hood.army.mil/leaders/policies/Corps/new/5_Motorcycle_Safety.pdf
So just a little insight into your several year old post I just happened upon.
While I cant comment on what you, your unit experienced with a delay in crash review... I can say, for absolute certainty, when you posted this 2014 the policy was if you crashed you were required to report it, and not ride again until a review was done.. the review, done by the local commander / leader in your chain of command and must be done within 7 days// the 1st 05 in your CofC must interview the Sm and crash before the rider may ride again.. there is no time limit.. it can be done the same day, next week or 4 weeks.. if a Unit LTC is delaying the interview....that's a local issue to be dealt woith. It is neither a policy or expectations from higher to delay the review.. in fact just the opposite,,, it was encouraged to interview the SM as soon as possible.
The AAR would later be briefed to the 1st O6 in the chain of command ... but it was not a requirement to ride again..
There is no 3 months or more delay.. unless your lower level, local commander O5 is delaying the process.
I sat many dozens of these reviews along with 1CD safety, and the ADCM, ADCS and chief of staff monthly.
Rarely was a SM required to do more than a check ride with the unit motorcycle mentore before they could return to riding. That means when we sat a review on Tuesday... less than 30 days post reported accident the rider could have been back on the bike already by then...unless the local commander was stalling. If its longer than that, there was criminal activity involved in the crash or the unit is causing a delay.
DOD policy
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/605504p.pdf
Fort Hood Motorcycle safety policy
http://www.hood.army.mil/leaders/policies/Corps/new/5_Motorcycle_Safety.pdf
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My thoughts, and mine alone, if it was not a reportable incident to your insurance company, or to the state where it is registered to, nor was it a moving infraction on post, why would there be this really arcane way of restricting people? Dump your bike in the parking lot, wind blows it off the center stand (seen it), would you call for a police investigation if you were off post? Most likely not, I would like to think a post commander would have better things to do, if not maybe they should think of retiring?
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It must be definitely a Hood policy, here in europe we have no such policy anywhere cause I helped write the policy for a lot of places, sounds like you just got a hater in charge of you all. Trust me its not like that everywhere and don't let that discourage you from riding.
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Post rules are strict and strictly enforced...most anywhere you go. I am an avid rider. As a Senior NCO, before retiring, I was constantly giving safety briefs and whatnot. One of the reasons the Army is so hell bent on motorcycle safety is because, many troops come back from a deployment and first thing they do is buy a bike. There's been plenty of research into the reasons why troops buy bikes.
Most of us who've deployed have seen some "exciting" days in theater. We get hopped up during the excitement. Apparently, according to studies, we come back and seek out a similar thrill. Bikes provide that thrill. Anywho, long story short, the young troops purchase these bikes and hit the streets. They, at one point, were getting killed quite frequently due to lack of experience and lack of respect for biking in general. It was during that point in time that the Safety courses were implemented with strict enforcement.
You know the Army...a troop can't manage or conduct themselves properly, so policies and chain of command will do it for them. Underpaid baby sitting is what it amounts to. As a rider, I feel that the military version of PPE is a tad overkill, but then again, I'm not the one who has to call Battalion in the wee hours of the morning and explain that I lost a young troop to sheer stupidity.
It is what it is...the last time I reviewed the information, motorcycle deaths had reduced, so there's something positive to be said for the Army policy. I always managed to follow post rules without issue....however, i was turned away at the gate a couple times for not wearing a DOT approved helmet, another time I was turned away for not having gloves, and a final time for not having over the ankle boots...while in civilian attire. The PT belt is not the same thing at a reflective vest or jacket. ;) Rules is rules as they say. Entire point being that equipment and bikes can be replaced...lives can't. One life lost when something could have been done to mitigate that loss, is one too many.
If it were up to me, I'd take a simpler approach...bubble wrap all the known knuckleheads in the Company together so that they can't possibly harm themselves or anyone else and let the normal, responsible Joes live their lives.
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I ride a 250 CC dirt bike ( not street legal) as far as my unit is concerned as long as I have a counseling statement about wearing the appropriate safety gear and a commanders interview from my company commander I'm good to go. Basically If it has lights and turn signals on it you have to have the Motorcycle safety course. Most of my riding is on trails in southeast Ga.
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