Posted on Dec 12, 2014
What kind of discharge do you get if you fail a APFT?
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Discharge
APFT
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First of all calm down. It is obvious that the words "chaptered" and "discharged" are screaming sirens in the medulla oblongata. I'm not going to extract regulations to you and add more to the apparent fear.
Leadership should first counsel as someone had already pointed. Counseling is not a bad thing if you really paid attention to its purpose. Counseling is a way for leadership to take the time and let the Soldier know what, where, when, how and more important why you need to improve in a particular area.
I know it's easy to just give you all of the bad and negative news to expect (that's all you've been hearing) but it's even easier to refresh the Warrior Ethos in a Soldier: think of "Never quit" and "never accept defeat". Dwell on those two while you work your hind parts off. The real question should be directed by a desire to succeed.
Leadership should first counsel as someone had already pointed. Counseling is not a bad thing if you really paid attention to its purpose. Counseling is a way for leadership to take the time and let the Soldier know what, where, when, how and more important why you need to improve in a particular area.
I know it's easy to just give you all of the bad and negative news to expect (that's all you've been hearing) but it's even easier to refresh the Warrior Ethos in a Soldier: think of "Never quit" and "never accept defeat". Dwell on those two while you work your hind parts off. The real question should be directed by a desire to succeed.
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SGT David Oliver. Your original post definitely hit the mark. Ladies and gentlemen, instead of giving the worse case scenario, as leaders we should be instructing PV2 Ernest Rios on what to do to help his battle buddy overcome this stumbling block. It's one failed APFT, not a DUI with a hit and run. A failed APFT can be overcome with the proper counseling and guidance from the Soldiers leadership.
PV2 Rios, more than likely your battle buddy will be flagged for APFT failure. No way around that. I don't have every AR/FM/TC memorized, but the Soldier will be counseled, flagged and at the commanders discretion be given a another APFT within a certain time frame (usually 30 days). If Soldier is to fail another APFT within a certain time and is still flagged the commander will initiate the separation process.
As leaders we should be quick to address how to correct problems instead of instantly giving worse case scenarios and causing un-needed hysteria. Yes, the question was asked from a worse case point of view.
And as SFC Pakenham stated, there's no reason for failing an APFT without a noted medical condition.
PV2 Rios, more than likely your battle buddy will be flagged for APFT failure. No way around that. I don't have every AR/FM/TC memorized, but the Soldier will be counseled, flagged and at the commanders discretion be given a another APFT within a certain time frame (usually 30 days). If Soldier is to fail another APFT within a certain time and is still flagged the commander will initiate the separation process.
As leaders we should be quick to address how to correct problems instead of instantly giving worse case scenarios and causing un-needed hysteria. Yes, the question was asked from a worse case point of view.
And as SFC Pakenham stated, there's no reason for failing an APFT without a noted medical condition.
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SPC Holly Reynolds
This response was really well stated. I know things have tightened up a bit in the few years since I got out, but I still don't see a single APFT failure as immediate grounds for chapter/discharge unless there are other issues and the leadership just views that as the last straw.
The only thing I disagree with is the "no reason for failure without a noted medical condition". There are actually a few valid reasons. Not excuses, but legitimate reasons.
1.) Occasionally, soldiers get put into details or schools where they only have a few hours to sleep and NO other time to PT. If this extends for a while, they may be out of shape. Not necessarily overweight, but the muscles may need a little work before they are fully fit again. We had an entire platoon worth of people who were on a shorthanded QRF detail for 45 days. The shifts were 18 hours with a bunch of duties that made it very difficult to PT every day. We DID PT, but it was sporadic.
18 hours a day/7 days a week for 45 days. We had to recondition ourselves after that.
2.) Stupid nerves. It only happened to me once, but I would have sworn I was *this close* every time. I don't know why, but I ALWAYS got super nervous before a record APFT. To the point of running back and forth to the latrine between events and it effects everything. Most of the time, I scored well above the standard, but it never made me any less terrified of failing.
On a particularly intense bout of anxiety, I totally blew my test because I felt violently ill.
Either way...I don't see one failure as getting anyone kicked out. Unless, as noted, there are other marks against the soldier and the failure was just the last straw.
The only thing I disagree with is the "no reason for failure without a noted medical condition". There are actually a few valid reasons. Not excuses, but legitimate reasons.
1.) Occasionally, soldiers get put into details or schools where they only have a few hours to sleep and NO other time to PT. If this extends for a while, they may be out of shape. Not necessarily overweight, but the muscles may need a little work before they are fully fit again. We had an entire platoon worth of people who were on a shorthanded QRF detail for 45 days. The shifts were 18 hours with a bunch of duties that made it very difficult to PT every day. We DID PT, but it was sporadic.
18 hours a day/7 days a week for 45 days. We had to recondition ourselves after that.
2.) Stupid nerves. It only happened to me once, but I would have sworn I was *this close* every time. I don't know why, but I ALWAYS got super nervous before a record APFT. To the point of running back and forth to the latrine between events and it effects everything. Most of the time, I scored well above the standard, but it never made me any less terrified of failing.
On a particularly intense bout of anxiety, I totally blew my test because I felt violently ill.
Either way...I don't see one failure as getting anyone kicked out. Unless, as noted, there are other marks against the soldier and the failure was just the last straw.
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This should all be laid out by the soldiers first line supervisor during the counseling session.
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SGT Javier Silva
WO1 (Join to see) - I am down voting your comment because of the failure to address the actual question.
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SGT (Join to see)
The question was technically answered, the info he has asked for should be in the individuals counseling. If it is not then that is a failure in leadership.
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PV2 (Join to see) - The type of discharge you receive is dependent at what point of your career you are at. A commander may recommend any characterization of discharge (e.g. Honorable, Other than Honorable, etc.); however, it is at the discretion of the GOCOM Commander (w/ separation authority) to approve or deny any separation requests.
Today's Army uses Chapter & Discharge interchangeably; however, it is technically not the same. Normally, a chapter reference the chapter of a regulation being used to initialize separation and final discharge.
I would like to remind you that a separation packet is not initiated unless it a second APFT failure with the prescribed time-frame IAW applicable regulations.
*GOCOM - General Officer Command (normally the first GO in the chain with separation authority - Division level or higher).
Today's Army uses Chapter & Discharge interchangeably; however, it is technically not the same. Normally, a chapter reference the chapter of a regulation being used to initialize separation and final discharge.
I would like to remind you that a separation packet is not initiated unless it a second APFT failure with the prescribed time-frame IAW applicable regulations.
*GOCOM - General Officer Command (normally the first GO in the chain with separation authority - Division level or higher).
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Tell your friend to do more PT on his own time and pass his PT test. He doesn't want to be discharged for something as dumb as a PT failure; it will have a life long affect on him in a very negative way!
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CMSgt (Join to see)
You downvoted me for having an intelligent opinion on your opinion? How incredibly evolved.
If you would like to continue to be the Downvote Police, by all means, but I feel any information is useful when members add their two cents. These are open forums of exchange. Human conversation is made up entirely spontaneous thoughts and advice, on and off topic; good, bad or indifferent. Whether one chooses to add it to ones arsenal is entirely up to them. I think you will get exhausted if you continue down this path of literal.
If you would like to continue to be the Downvote Police, by all means, but I feel any information is useful when members add their two cents. These are open forums of exchange. Human conversation is made up entirely spontaneous thoughts and advice, on and off topic; good, bad or indifferent. Whether one chooses to add it to ones arsenal is entirely up to them. I think you will get exhausted if you continue down this path of literal.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
First off, even though I may not have given a direct answer to the question; I did give advice that refers directly to the question. Everyone knows that PT Failure is a terrible reason to get discharged; unless they have a medical reason for failing consistently, which is a whole different topic. Therefore, I don't see how you can say that my answer didn't give any information directly to the question. But that is just my personal opinion on this matter, and everyone is entitled to voice their opinion as well.
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SGT Javier Silva
CMSgt (Join to see) - I apologize, I meant that as an upvote. I was using my mobile phone and apparently fat-fingered the vote.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
No worries! I appreciate it. We were all down voted in our other thread. I was starting to think that my charm doesn't translate online. Lol.
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Unless there's a medical condition there's no excuse for failure. Staying fit enough to pass a PT test literally takes 15 minutes 3 times a week, and having some discipline with your diet.
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SSG Tim Everett
SGT Javier Silva I think you have some mighty overblown notions on what is and what is not required on Rallypoint. At no point is anyone obligated to play by any unspoken rules that may or may not be intuited from the magical land of pixelated, virtual lawbooks. Show me a RP regulation that says I absolutely must respond to a question posed in any location here. Show me a RP regulation that says I'm obligated to give you any sort of justification for a down-vote. I keep seeing a handful of angry posters decrying the fact that they got downvoted and received no explanation, and I'd like to be able to cite a regulation like other rules lawyers.
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SGT Javier Silva
SSG Tim Everett - I never said that it is required to answer the question; however, it does not prevent me from down-voting and giving my opinion as to the down vote. I never said that you had to give a response to a down vote; however, I did mention that it is customary to do so. Customs are actions or ways of behaving that is usual and traditional among the people in a particular group or place. I asked for a reason, not demanded. Everyone has the right to answer any question in any manner that they want. On the flip side of that coin, anyone has the right to cast their opinion (opposing or agreeing) on such comments/answers. I believed that this comment that was made was not sufficient enough as an answer to the posted question. I gave my opinion. I got down-voted. I asked why. He answered. Someone else stated their opinion. I rebutted. That's the wonderful thing about DBs in RP. You have the ability to say what you want; however, be prepared for an opposing opinion/post. I would the same with any discussion that would warrant it. As a matter of fact, look for a discussion of the GITMO not being shut down. You'll see plenty of it.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
SSG Richard Reilly
Would you please share why you downvoted essentially everyone on this whole thread? I believe that it was a healthy and respectful exchange of disagreement. And even one of my comments that was pedantic but light-hearted.
@SGT Javier Silva
@SSG Tim Everett
Would you please share why you downvoted essentially everyone on this whole thread? I believe that it was a healthy and respectful exchange of disagreement. And even one of my comments that was pedantic but light-hearted.
@SGT Javier Silva
@SSG Tim Everett
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Hi 1LT L S,
I am on iPad and clicked ignore by accident. Would you please retry your request to add me? I can't seem to figure it out through touch pad iThingy. :)
Thank you!
I am on iPad and clicked ignore by accident. Would you please retry your request to add me? I can't seem to figure it out through touch pad iThingy. :)
Thank you!
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If in the Army AR 635-200, Chapter 13 Unsatisfactory Performance would be the authority to seprate. However, level of discharge would differ with situations. Entry Level Discharge or General would be the "norm" for a Entry level Soldier. But Honorable would occur if you fail after you pass your entry level status. But every leader should say that a SM that fails, is a leader that is failing. Becuase if you gave me a SM that wanted to pass (with enough heart to not quit) I would guarantee he would as a leader.
You will have a right to talk with Trial Defense Services to get information on your rights as a SM.
You will have a right to talk with Trial Defense Services to get information on your rights as a SM.
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That's an AdSep. It could be a Less than honorable, check to make sure you get the "RF3 code" on the discharge That IS an Honorable.
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if APFT failure is the sole reason for the discharge, you will get a General Discharge under Honorable conditions.
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