What level of emphasis should Combatives have in Soldiers' training requirements, regardless of MOS?

CPT (Join to see) - What do you disagree with, Sir?

My bad, MSG. I just now saw the question. I believe the Army should adopt a simililar program to the MCMAP which I learned as an enlisted Marine. Even that left much to be desired, but the Army Combatives Program, in my opinion, does little in the way of useful fighting techniques. Starting on your knees and rolling on the ground with someone because supposedly "90% of fights go to the ground in the first 10 seconds anyway", rather than trying to maintain maximum mobility while inflicting actual damage. I just don't care for the design and focus, to be honest.

CPT (Join to see) - I hear you, Sir. I felt the same way myself...until I went to level 3 and then 4. I have a JKD background in which we learn to deal with an enemy in all ranges of combat and end the fight as fast as possible. The best way to deal with multiple threats is standing. being on the ground is a poor and potentially lethal choice. That said, Soldiers and other MACP students learn grappling from the ground and on the knees first because of the following reasons - 1) Ease of learning.There is a distinct advantage that we have when in grappling range and that is greater sensory input. When we engage an enemy from any other range other than grappling range, we need to accurately perceive distance and with that, accurately time our action. This applies to shooting as well as striking with or without weapons. To do this, we predominately use our eyes. As you know, marksmanship is a perishable skill and takes time to cultivate and not everyone becomes an expert marksman. striking is the same, but harder. (stay in just the right range to effectively strike, then evade their strike to be able to strike again. rinse and repeat until they die/lose via blunt force trauma or puncture wounds, etc. as appropriate to the situation.) In striking arts, we must perceive their action and react to it OR initiate our own action preemptively. Developing effective and accurate striking techniques takes time. We use hand-eye coordination and/or hand-foot (knee/elbow/etc.). this requires the effective use or 1 sense - our eyesight (from 2 organs called eyes) combined with our ability to execute the right or best technique for the situation. With grappling, we have our sense of touch and the billions of nerves in our skin all over our bodies that tell us where the enemy is and what they are doing. This is the advantage. more input in less time = a greater "battlefield" intelligence. It equates to being able to observe the enemy from a distance and choose an action, or being right there and make a choice. We as humans learn a lot more from DOING (and seeing) versus seeing alone. Since the techniques of striking are harder to learn and employ effectively, we get a lot less doing. and by not doing, we learn less. Simply put, grappling is easier to learn. 2) and i hate this one, but understand the need for it - safety. Commanders (in the Army anyway) don't want to have to report Soldiers being injured in any way as a result of training. Starting from the knees is the safest way to train grappling. Just as in training people to shoot fire arms in tactical situations, rarely are live rounds used against other learners (we use blanks in conjunction with MILES gear or ultimate sim rounds for the real killers) for safety considerations. sure, we could put on boxing gloves, but we KNOW that people can STILL get seriously injured from punches. We cant simply limit training to punching either, can we? i think you can see my point.
As I said, i completely understand your point, but Level 3 and 4 teach and reinforce a variety of striking techniques and most importantly, they teach students that grappling is NOT the goal. Grappling instruction gives students an option IF the fight goes to the ground. The goal is to get to the primary or secondary weapon system. If that fails, there are other options before going to the ground. They teach grappling first because it is essentially the worst case scenario, that is also the most likely scenario.

Best explanation I've heard yet, MSG. Thank you. I believe that training should always be focused, not on how things have happened before or even how you think they're likely to happen, but rather on how you wish for them to happen; in other words shaping the fight in advance (striving toward the desired outcome). This applies to many things besides combatives. Obviously you know way more about it than I do, and if I get a chance to learn more I hope I have an instructor who breaks it down like you did.

Corporal Upham, Saving Private Ryan, comes to mind. A clerk typist who fired his weapon in basic but no other experience, Sent into the front lines with a squad in combative situations. All but useless.... Even caused the death of a fellow soldier needlessly. Nobody going into a war zone is going to know when or where their skills may be needed, and quite frankly if someone's ineptness or lack of training is going to get me killed, I don't want them around!

when we started training in combatives we were told level one is ground fighting and its focused on staying alive long enough till someone else in your unit can neutralize your attacker

NCOs and other leaders do not want to put the effort into getting such training set up and authorized. Sad, not saying I was the best NCO but damn... there are some that dont want to make this stuff happen.. but in an elite unit you will get it lol

I don't think anyone won a fight by both individuals facing each other on their knees and then pulling on each other's uniforms, but that's how combatives bouts start.

excellent.

The pretty plaque...on the right :-)

Got to arm bar a suspect who was fighting a Huntington Beach Police Officer upstairs patio at my apartment complex... Officer was fighting an MMA trained suspect and I thank God for my mixed years of karate, boxing, and knuckle dragging Law Enforcement / Corrections / and Security school of hard knocks... No plaque needed... Just doing what was right at the time God placed it in front of me! God Bless Your Service to your Country and fellow man! (Jeremiah 29:11)