Posted on Jul 27, 2016
What's the relationship between the Army Technical Sergeants and Specialist 4-9 Rank structures?
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Military History
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 12
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SP5 Michael Evans Sr.
SPC Clinton Walls - You had ZERO legal manners in which a SPEC can GIVE ORDERS....
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CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr.
https://www.rallypoint.com/profiles/1417336-spc-clinton-walls - Simply not true. As a SP6 I was a shift Supervisor AND PLT SGT. I had all the legal rights and anyone else assigned and dedicated to such positions. I had the authority to issue legal orders and the authority to enforce them.
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SPC John A.
There seems to be a lot of miscommunication on this page. Those with Specialist ranks, as well as those with Technician ranks, certainly may have had leadership positions and authority to match. But being "in charge" isn't legally the same thing as being "in command." Being able to "give orders" isn't the same as being "in command." As a SPC4 in 1996, I had the same E-4 rank as a corporal. But a corporal is an NCO; a SPC4 is not.
In WWII, I don't know if T/3, T/4, and T/5 (having the same rank insignia as Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, and Corporal, respectively, but with the letter T below the chevrons) were considered NCOs. And I don't know if the other SPC ranks were NCOs - but I think not. I do know that these Technician grades were awarded to those in roles other than Combat Arms. That doesn't mean they were never shot at.
My MI unit had no corporals either - because MI is a Combat Support branch and corporals are ranks assigned to soldiers in the Combat Arms branches (Infantry, Engineers, Armor, etc.). One can of course see combat while not serving in a Combat Arms branch; the two terms have nothing to do with one another. So, Yes - a SPC6 could be a Platoon Sergeant and even serve in combat, and NOT be "in command." A SPC4 could be "in charge" of a couple of soldiers, but could not be placed "in command" of them. (And surely you're not suggesting, SPC Walls, that there are no corporals anywhere in the Airborne divisions? Perhaps you meant just in your Combat Support or Combat Service Support unit?)
In WWII, I don't know if T/3, T/4, and T/5 (having the same rank insignia as Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, and Corporal, respectively, but with the letter T below the chevrons) were considered NCOs. And I don't know if the other SPC ranks were NCOs - but I think not. I do know that these Technician grades were awarded to those in roles other than Combat Arms. That doesn't mean they were never shot at.
My MI unit had no corporals either - because MI is a Combat Support branch and corporals are ranks assigned to soldiers in the Combat Arms branches (Infantry, Engineers, Armor, etc.). One can of course see combat while not serving in a Combat Arms branch; the two terms have nothing to do with one another. So, Yes - a SPC6 could be a Platoon Sergeant and even serve in combat, and NOT be "in command." A SPC4 could be "in charge" of a couple of soldiers, but could not be placed "in command" of them. (And surely you're not suggesting, SPC Walls, that there are no corporals anywhere in the Airborne divisions? Perhaps you meant just in your Combat Support or Combat Service Support unit?)
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Specialist 4-7 were still allowed to move up in rank however they were usually not placed in leadership positions. Technically a corporal would outrank a SPC7, although he wouldn't outrank a Technical Sergeant. A Technical Staff Sergeant would be equal in rank to a regular Staff Sergeant, just paid more.
http://www.fatherswar.com/8thinfdiv/WW2/ww2_8thgeneralinfo/general%20info/WW2%20Rank.html
http://www.fatherswar.com/8thinfdiv/WW2/ww2_8thgeneralinfo/general%20info/WW2%20Rank.html
The most basic part of the Army is rank. Men are given ranks so that everyone knows who can give orders to whom, as often those orders will result in men dying. Army rank is a two tired class system: officers and enlisted men. Historically officers were the upper class; intelligent and well trained men of finer birth. Enlisted men were the lower working class, the ones that do the dirty jobs.
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SGT (Join to see) Are you speaking of the chicken or the egg?
'T' ranks were of the old Army, (see book, 'From Here to Eternity' and were a instant, revocable means of compensating for extra skills. Specialist ranks came about in the late 50s and 60s n 70s for the same reasons. That is my recall, no research. CSM
'T' ranks were of the old Army, (see book, 'From Here to Eternity' and were a instant, revocable means of compensating for extra skills. Specialist ranks came about in the late 50s and 60s n 70s for the same reasons. That is my recall, no research. CSM
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CSM Charles Hayden
SSgt Boyd Herrst “From Here to Eternity”, the book, not the movie demonstrates T ranks.
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CSM Charles Hayden
SSgt Boyd Herrst Just my attempt to expose you to the “”Old Army””!
I used some of the techniques mentioned in the book during my career.
When I first visited Schofield Barracks, a tear rolled down my cheek.
I used some of the techniques mentioned in the book during my career.
When I first visited Schofield Barracks, a tear rolled down my cheek.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
I read the book also .. quite some time ago. In our library in the early-to mid 60s it was in adult reading section. I found a bench in that aisle and went there to read the book . I had just finished it and some older lady reported that I was hiding there reading a book. So ...
You want me to forget what I read?
I asked back sarcastically... very good writing and great graphic detail I said in front of her.. (I wanted to see her reaction and got it. ... ). It was the librarian who told me to sit back there and read it... CSM Charles Hayden
You want me to forget what I read?
I asked back sarcastically... very good writing and great graphic detail I said in front of her.. (I wanted to see her reaction and got it. ... ). It was the librarian who told me to sit back there and read it... CSM Charles Hayden
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When i was in (04-08) we only had 2 E-4 rankings. That's Specialist and Corporal. Specialist no stripes, but had limited authority granted to them by their ranking Sgt. Typical for special details amd clean up crews. Corporals had stripes and limited Sgt authority granted by a lateral promotion.
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SGT (Join to see)
I'm not sure, but I do recall seeing a picture of Leonard Nimoy (Mr. Spock) wearing the rank of Technical Sergeant (E5). Interesting bit of trivia if nothing else.
I'm not sure, but I do recall seeing a picture of Leonard Nimoy (Mr. Spock) wearing the rank of Technical Sergeant (E5). Interesting bit of trivia if nothing else.
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The removed SP7-9 in the early 70's and the SP6 in 1985. This was because there had become no real difference once a soldier moved past SP5. They were all NCO's with command responsibilities just like all other NCO's.
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SGT (Join to see)
Now that is interesting. Does that mean that SPC7-9 didn't really SME's in their MOS or CMF ?
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SP6 Olen Hutchins
No those in the SPC ranks performed the same as other soldiers. In fact one of the biggest difference was their promotions came much slower than their hard stripe brothers. SGT (Join to see) -
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SSG Sam Jackson
Sp5 was also done away with in 85. That I traded in my Acting Sergeant wings for real ones. I remember it just like it was Oct 85 allover again.
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Good Question, I'm so far out of the Army now that I didn't have to deal with the differences.
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The Specialist grades are a modern counterpart to the WW2-Korea Technical grades.
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Both rank structures paralleled the NCO ranks but focused more on technical expertise for non-combat jobs rather than direct leadership or combat experience. They gave Soldiers who weren't likely to see combat an opportunity to still move up in rank and display their "know how" sort of speak.
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SFC (Join to see)
Also, the Specialist ranks were more of an expansion of the Techinical SGT ranks as thy were phased out shortly after WWII.
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SP6 Olen Hutchins
I am sorry SSG but I humped with full gear and weapon. As I served along combat troops. I got shot at and returned fire as well. Never got hit but I did hit whatever I was aiming at.
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I'm not sure what you are asking as neither of the rank structures exist any more.
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SGT (Join to see)
That's my point. That's why its tagged "Military History". How did they compare and contrast during their duration of use?
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