Posted on Oct 29, 2013
MAJ Samuel Weber
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Being an ANCOC (now Senior Leader's Course) graduate myself (Feb 2003), I find myself looking back at what I learned. As an officer I look at some of things that are missing that I never considered important when I was wearing hard stripes.

 

One thing I would change in the current ALC/SLC course are:

 

1 - Classes on the NCO and Officer relationship

2 - The MDMP process for SSG and above (Future Battle Staff NCOs)

3 - Classes taught by officers (?) (Similar to NCOs teaching officers in OCS/OBC)

 

Any thoughts?

Edited 12 y ago
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Responses: 9
CSM Michael Poll
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I would ditch the online training portion and make it all classroom and field.  On line is not a guage of a Soldiers ability, eyes on training is.
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SSG Battalion Cbrn Nco
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
CSM, even if they didn't nix the DL portion, they should nix the CAC requirement to log on for it. it is hard to get to my unit to log onto a computer. I have a CA reader on my keyboard, but cannot get it to work, even with all the websites out there. I believe that this hinders NCOES as well.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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Honestly, sir, I don't think we need more classroom instruction. Skills can be introduced at NCOES schools but for the most part, they are not. If you're getting the kind of experience that one needs to become an effective leader, 90% of what you "learn" at NCOES is a refresher of what you've already learned. What we need is for senior Soldiers (NCO and officer alike) to take younger Soldiers under their wing and teach them, mentor them, coach them until the junior Soldier can take the senior's place. As my 1SG told me, our job is to train our replacement. If we all do that, the Soldiers that want the opportunity to serve a higher levels will have it.

As for the current curriculum of NCOES, I think it needs to be more scenario based and it should require more problem solving and outside the box thinking. We will not get where we need to go by just memorizing what the book says to do.
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MAJ Samuel Weber
MAJ Samuel Weber
12 y
I agree SFC Tyler. I am not suggesting we do more "book work", but that take the time to learn things while we are attending NCOES/OES that we may not be exposed to in our units. Think back to a few of your PCSs and the things you learned at your new unit. How times have we been told "I don't care how you did it in your old unit". I just think that schools should be a chance for mentorship, collaboration, and being exposed to different perspectives. I do like your suggestion that we move to a scenario based problem solving. But we need Leaders in the Army to share real scenarios with the school house. I think CALL could help with this, but I have seen a great deal of reluctance from Leaders to provide input to this program. Your thought?
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SFC Information Assurance Ncoic
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What I would change is the relevance of the information being taught.  I've completed BNCOC and ANCOC, learned a lot of good information but it was pretty useless.  For my MOS we were required to complete 6 weeks of Cisco training, I'm glad I got the training but i've never used what was taught.  I've taken Unix Administrator twice but never really used it. The rest of the course was mainly theory, theory is good but what good is it if you've never had the opportunity to practice what you've learned?  Perfect case and point i've taken Server 2k3 about 3 times, an Active Directory course once all theory.  When it came down to it I could answer your questions about the courses but couldn't put it into practice. 
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SSG Felix Najera
SSG Felix Najera
12 y
I totally agree with you SFC Cummings. Taking portions of the Cisco Academy curriculum is great, and valuable information for any 25B, but the relevance of it in NCOES is questionable if the knowledge being obtained will not be utilized by the NCO's going through.
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What would you change about current NCOES schools?
SFC Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Operations Specialist
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Given the fact that there isn't a First Sergeant Course anymore, I think we should focus on that level of leadership education at the SLC level. At least under my SLC POI (74D), we were all hungry to learn more but we were only given a few hour blocks of instructions. 
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MAJ Samuel Weber
MAJ Samuel Weber
12 y
Great point! I do feel that they should bring back the 1SG course and keep it local. Assign instructor duty to local BN CSMs on a rotational basis. Who better to learn from than local BN CSMs? When I say 1SGs course I do mean a course separate from the Command Team course they teach at each division for one or two weeks....
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CW2 Kameron Read
CW2 Kameron Read
12 y
SLC does have the elements of the First Sergeant Course in its curriculum. My class even made a "First Sergeant for Dummies" book that we all had to provide input on. There are also Commander and 1SG courses on my post (Fort Gordon). I feel that SLC has enough common core covered to prepare graduates for any senior NCO assignment. What SLC lacks is more technical emphasis, specifically at Fort Huachuca. I learned how to do someone else's job poorly. Total waste of time.
I think being a 1SG is more on the job training anyway. Sink or swim and don't be afraid to ask questions of the CSM.
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MSG Psychological Operations Specialist
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I think it should be easier to drop an NCO/Soldier from the course and a lot more time should be spent in the field.

If my job as an NCO is to train Soldiers from the rigors of combat, then why am I not receiving more instruction in the field? I was one of very few infantrymen in my WLC classroom and while the field instruction was VERY simplistic, many of the non-combat MOS NCO's with me just did not understand what was going on during a battle drill. Obviously we were not expected to be tacticians, but just to operate at a level of what I consider to be basic knowledge. They should give us another two days, at minimum, in the field. From sunrise to sundown teach these battle drills to the standard, coach, delegate and follow up with the class before they are evaluated so a leader can learn to think critically during a critical time instead of going through the motions. I did enjoy the academic part of the course and learning more about the garrison environment.

I think it should be easier to drop an NCO/Soldier from the course for a few reasons. My Team/Squad leaders set the example for me as a young Soldier every single day and there was no question about how high the standards were. I emulate that to my Soldiers, and they know I come to work every day ready to show them the standard and hold the standard. I watched an entire classroom of students in WLC complain about having to counsel soldiers, check barracks rooms, teach classes to subordinates, etc. Most of those people showed up to the course on time, did the bare minimum and walked away from there with their certificate. This makes me sick to think that these people are allowed to lead and mentor Soldiers. Personally, I don't think they deserve the stripes if they wont commit to the lifestyle yet they will pass this course by barely applying themselves. If these types of people are going to get short-timers syndrome at an NCOES why is the Army wasting the time on them? I'm not trying to act like I am gods gift to leadership, but I would never let myself drop to that level. Soldiers deserve better leadership than that.
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CSM (Non-Rated)
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CSM,

The SSD training is seriously broken and desperately needs corrected. I have been the CSM at my new Battalion since April and that is the common complaint from my Soldiers when I visit my companies. The site freezes or is down too often, the help-desk doesn’t answer their calls or questions, CAC issues at home and MAC compatibility problems were my biggest complaints.

Distance Learning is cost effective and thus will always be a part of NCOES. I don’t know about you but I took the Non-resident USASMA phase and found it frustrating. If I could change anything about that it would be to set it up like the Officers ILE with a two week Phase I, DL Phase II, and a two week Phase III. I would have learned more if it was set up that way.
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SGT Richard H.
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I think that the biggest thing I would change, looking back on PLDC, has already changed with the advent of WLC (correct me if I'm wrong), which is to make it MOS (or at least branch) specific. We all (branches) do things difeently, so leadership takes different skills/methods
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SFC Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Operations Specialist
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I think the change needed is the redundancy. ALC-CC or SSD-2 had several aspects of it that were covered in the ALC Residency course. Writing in the Military, SHARP and EO, etc. While I see the importance of these classes, they are taught in other realms. Eliminating those from one side or another, or in some instances even both, would allow for more time in residency to cover the course work or to go more in depth, or on the online side, allow for other classes that we do not get in other areas of work.
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SFC Special Security Representative
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DO not require a CC prior to entry into the class....
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) - Respectfully, I disagree. Common Core is one of the few chances you get to see the whole picture and your role in it.
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SFC Special Security Representative
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I completely understand why we have it, but ALMS is not dependable. I have been waiting for CC or SSD 2 for a while now, besides not having that class I am qualified for ALC. I just got contact info for HRC today, so I will be calling. I have spoken to ALMS, they have said that I needed to speak to the QSM, I spoke to them and they directed my back to ALMS.

I think CC is a great class with a lot of useful information, but it is the only thing stopping me from ALC. I think it should be a requirement 100%, just not before ALC.

If ALMS was more dependable, I would agree with you 1SGT
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