Posted on Aug 28, 2017
Where can I find the regulation about wearing a knee sleeve or strap during PT (not the APFT)?
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I looked in AR 40-501 and AR 670-1 about wearing a knee sleeve or a knee strap during pt no the apft.
Where else can I look?
Where else can I look?
Uniforms
DA Pam 670-1
Army Regulations
APFT
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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I am going by memory here, but if I recall correctly AR 670-1 (maybe it is in the pam now) stated that it had to be medically prescribed and black in color.
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SGM Erik Marquez
1SG (Join to see) Far as I kind find its only referenced as part of the APFT instructions.
As compression of the patella can induce or exacerbate damage/injury. I always required a SM to seek medical guidance and direction before wearing one during organized PT. If for no other reason than the SM can be fully informed and make their own decisions, be aware of signs that its hurting them more then helping, ect.
As compression of the patella can induce or exacerbate damage/injury. I always required a SM to seek medical guidance and direction before wearing one during organized PT. If for no other reason than the SM can be fully informed and make their own decisions, be aware of signs that its hurting them more then helping, ect.
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SSG(P) (Join to see) Where can I find the regulation about wearing a knee sleeve or strap during PT (not the APFT)?"
Your not going to find it, it is not a regulation or FM covered item other than for APFT. That makes it open to decision by any leader, for you..SSG and up.
If this is a "you cannot wear it issue" simple enough, have the Sm go see the unit provider, ask if it is appropriate to wear based on conditions and stated symptoms. Take that back to the leader who is taking issue with the wearing of the brace and ASK how they would like you to handle wearing the brace..
Give them options to say yes to.
PA said it was a good idea for my issues..
I wont wear it other then directly before formation and during PT, never en route to the unit or home.
I can get them in black or blue.. which color do you prefer I wear?
EDIT: Caveat, it could be argued that DA PAM 670-1 does states what comprises the full APFU, and as the knee brace is not on that list of uniform items it can not be worn.
I would disagree with such an assertion, but if the individual out ranked me, Id have to find a senior person to decide otherwise or get a medical approval.
The APFU stated uniform does not say you are "allowed" to wear mole skin protecting a blister area, but what commander would say its not on the uniform component list, so no you can not wear it.
I view a knee brace as the same thing.
Your not going to find it, it is not a regulation or FM covered item other than for APFT. That makes it open to decision by any leader, for you..SSG and up.
If this is a "you cannot wear it issue" simple enough, have the Sm go see the unit provider, ask if it is appropriate to wear based on conditions and stated symptoms. Take that back to the leader who is taking issue with the wearing of the brace and ASK how they would like you to handle wearing the brace..
Give them options to say yes to.
PA said it was a good idea for my issues..
I wont wear it other then directly before formation and during PT, never en route to the unit or home.
I can get them in black or blue.. which color do you prefer I wear?
EDIT: Caveat, it could be argued that DA PAM 670-1 does states what comprises the full APFU, and as the knee brace is not on that list of uniform items it can not be worn.
I would disagree with such an assertion, but if the individual out ranked me, Id have to find a senior person to decide otherwise or get a medical approval.
The APFU stated uniform does not say you are "allowed" to wear mole skin protecting a blister area, but what commander would say its not on the uniform component list, so no you can not wear it.
I view a knee brace as the same thing.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez I would be absolutely inclined to agree with you IF I hadn't seen many Soldiers, get locked-up by the CSM for these issues. The first questions they asked were "Are you injured? Where is your profile?"
If the Army feels the need to formally regulate the visibility of spandex not coming past the bottom edge of the shorts, and Army issued long-underwear during cold season being hidden by APFU pants, it's clear the distinction is that additional visible equipment/clothing items are not considered as visibly welcome attachments on our bodies outside of the prescribed uniform, and Commander's/medically prescribed accessories.
I personally like to look for loopholes in the regulations to allow for more wiggle room. However, I've been reminded on many many occasions that even though there may be loopholes, I still have to enforce the intent off the regulation, no matter how vague. I've actually been pulled aside on many occasions, accused of attempting to subvert Soldiers, by having them actually read and understand the regulations, and to hold leaders accountable by the word of the regulation, just as we are when it's time for enlisted to be punished. Take for instance the transition period from traditional cell phones to Smart Phones; AR 670-1 at that time still only prohibited "Walking and talking", but did not specifically prohibit web browsing, playing games, texting, and the plethora of other activities that could be done simultaneously while walking, that did not involve talking. However, that did not stop the intent from being enforced, even though they did not go into fine detail to outline every single item that could/should be prohibited.
Im only saying this in hopes to provide current service members additional context to protect themselves against leadership who may choose to drop the hammer on them by applying their strictest interpretation of the regulation. If our Soldiers already know the worst that could happen, then they can take pre-emptive action to protect themselves and their future Soldiers from undue scrutiny and punishment.
That's just my thoughts, and what I have seen be most effective below the 1SG level.
If the Army feels the need to formally regulate the visibility of spandex not coming past the bottom edge of the shorts, and Army issued long-underwear during cold season being hidden by APFU pants, it's clear the distinction is that additional visible equipment/clothing items are not considered as visibly welcome attachments on our bodies outside of the prescribed uniform, and Commander's/medically prescribed accessories.
I personally like to look for loopholes in the regulations to allow for more wiggle room. However, I've been reminded on many many occasions that even though there may be loopholes, I still have to enforce the intent off the regulation, no matter how vague. I've actually been pulled aside on many occasions, accused of attempting to subvert Soldiers, by having them actually read and understand the regulations, and to hold leaders accountable by the word of the regulation, just as we are when it's time for enlisted to be punished. Take for instance the transition period from traditional cell phones to Smart Phones; AR 670-1 at that time still only prohibited "Walking and talking", but did not specifically prohibit web browsing, playing games, texting, and the plethora of other activities that could be done simultaneously while walking, that did not involve talking. However, that did not stop the intent from being enforced, even though they did not go into fine detail to outline every single item that could/should be prohibited.
Im only saying this in hopes to provide current service members additional context to protect themselves against leadership who may choose to drop the hammer on them by applying their strictest interpretation of the regulation. If our Soldiers already know the worst that could happen, then they can take pre-emptive action to protect themselves and their future Soldiers from undue scrutiny and punishment.
That's just my thoughts, and what I have seen be most effective below the 1SG level.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SFC (Join to see) - "I would be absolutely inclined to agree with you IF I hadn't seen many Soldiers, get locked-up by the CSM for these issues. The first questions they asked were "Are you injured? Where is your profile?""
And how many Senior NCOS did you see not enforce a non standard that only existed in the minds of a small percentage?
As I said to the OP, its an interpretation thing.. I read the FM, the AR, the DA Pam and see nothing in ti that restrict the wear of a piece of health, aid and comfort device.
Yes a few will read the same documents and say, its visible and therefore regulated as part of the uniform, and that brace is not specified as part of the uniform.
I have run in to these same types.. They are not "wrong" but in my opinion, they are not right.
When your troops ran past me and the majority like me, they kept running, got in a good work out. When they ran past one of the few that see things differently they had there PT session interrupted, got chewed out, took the brace off, and then hopeful resumed training.
I cant fix those other NCOs, just like those few never could effect the rest of us.
And how many Senior NCOS did you see not enforce a non standard that only existed in the minds of a small percentage?
As I said to the OP, its an interpretation thing.. I read the FM, the AR, the DA Pam and see nothing in ti that restrict the wear of a piece of health, aid and comfort device.
Yes a few will read the same documents and say, its visible and therefore regulated as part of the uniform, and that brace is not specified as part of the uniform.
I have run in to these same types.. They are not "wrong" but in my opinion, they are not right.
When your troops ran past me and the majority like me, they kept running, got in a good work out. When they ran past one of the few that see things differently they had there PT session interrupted, got chewed out, took the brace off, and then hopeful resumed training.
I cant fix those other NCOs, just like those few never could effect the rest of us.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez - "And how many Senior NCOS did you see not enforce a non standard that only existed in the minds of a small percentage?"
To the Joes, they don't know if they are getting bypassed without incident because they are covered by the Regulation, or if they are actually in violation of the regulation but the SNCO doesn't know or care. You know Soldiers will try to push the limits, as we've all been there at some point.
I agree it should be something handled from the lowest level up. I'll separate my uniform concerns from the health concerns and say that if its mobility hindering, its should be accompanied with a Profile, so the Soldier isn't causing prolonged injury trying to do a home remedy.
To the Joes, they don't know if they are getting bypassed without incident because they are covered by the Regulation, or if they are actually in violation of the regulation but the SNCO doesn't know or care. You know Soldiers will try to push the limits, as we've all been there at some point.
I agree it should be something handled from the lowest level up. I'll separate my uniform concerns from the health concerns and say that if its mobility hindering, its should be accompanied with a Profile, so the Soldier isn't causing prolonged injury trying to do a home remedy.
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The only thing I could find pertaining to the use of sleeves, braces, or straps, was in FM 7-22, where it talks about them not being allowed during the APFT, unless medically prescribed.
That being said, it comes down to Commander's discretion of whether they allow you to be in violation of the APFU uniform policy during regular PRT. I say "be in violation", because Para 10-7, DA PAM 670-1 (and the others below it) define the parameters of the APFU, accessories, and what the Commander's can authorize.
If you have an injury that requires you to use a Knee Sleeve to perform certain movements, then the correct course of action is to acquire a proper medical profile, and attend physical therapy to heal; you can ask the profile issuing medical personnel to add in the usage of the knee sleeve or straps, etc. I don't know if you are asking for yourself, on behalf of someone else, or are the NCO trying to correct another Soldier, but trust me, the Army does NOT care that the injured Soldier tried to "tough it out." They should do themselves a favor and take care of their careers, by getting proper medical attention before they get run into the ground and that nagging injury becomes permanent.
That being said, it comes down to Commander's discretion of whether they allow you to be in violation of the APFU uniform policy during regular PRT. I say "be in violation", because Para 10-7, DA PAM 670-1 (and the others below it) define the parameters of the APFU, accessories, and what the Commander's can authorize.
If you have an injury that requires you to use a Knee Sleeve to perform certain movements, then the correct course of action is to acquire a proper medical profile, and attend physical therapy to heal; you can ask the profile issuing medical personnel to add in the usage of the knee sleeve or straps, etc. I don't know if you are asking for yourself, on behalf of someone else, or are the NCO trying to correct another Soldier, but trust me, the Army does NOT care that the injured Soldier tried to "tough it out." They should do themselves a favor and take care of their careers, by getting proper medical attention before they get run into the ground and that nagging injury becomes permanent.
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SFC Carlos Cruz
The Army no longer used FM, this was replace by Army Doctrine Publication know as (ADP) or (ADRP)
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SFC (Join to see)
Unfortunately not all manuals have been superseded yet, so some publications, such as FM 7-22, will remain an FM until superseded in the future.
Reference: https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/FM.aspx
Reference: https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/FM.aspx
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