Posted on Mar 14, 2015
Which important individual military skill is the worst-taught?
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According to the wisdom of the RallyPoint community, "Communicate" is the most important individual military skill. Of the most important individual military skills which ones are the most poorly taught in our current system?
Extra Credit: How do we do it better?
Most important skill:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-is-the-most-important-military-skill?page=9&urlhash=530786#530786
For those that argue Think/Decide/Situational Awareness
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-ooda-the-best-description-of-decision-cycling
Extra Credit: How do we do it better?
Most important skill:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-is-the-most-important-military-skill?page=9&urlhash=530786#530786
For those that argue Think/Decide/Situational Awareness
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-ooda-the-best-description-of-decision-cycling
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 27
Marksmanship in general is a problem. The way it is taught does not translate well to the battle field. Static potions with static targets is not reality. Marksmanship needs to work more towards action shoot sports. With movement and odd angles strong and weak hand shooting. All soldiers should be taught and practice these techniques not just before deployments.
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1SG (Join to see)
Sir I agree that shooting overall has declined with budgets, Mandatory training and administrative taskings. I have been shooting my whole life and have never learned more about it until I started IDPA and 3 Gun comps. It takes lots of bullets to become good, however the completing of the course is so much more fun and safety is so much higher that it improves your skills or show flaws in technique. Just like any other training if it is engaging soldiers will engage. Army Qual is horribly painful even for some that loves to shoot that soldiers disengage and just want to get through it. That is the biggest flaw with marksmanship.
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Capt Richard I P.
1SG (Join to see), ever notice how the military takes some of the best activities and makes them horrible? Shooting, camping, running....heck even drinking beer with friends (mandatory fun times).
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MAJ (Join to see)
There is a significant difference, the Marines do a much better job training marksmanship through their Known Distance Ranges. In the Army you shoot at a silhouette and all you get is a yes/no response from the target (provided it's working) with the KD range you get to see on paper where your shot groups are landing and it provides you with important information that you can estimate your error be it sight picture/ trigger squeeze, or breath control.
The result the Marines are far more familiar with ballistics and intricacies of marksmanship.
The result the Marines are far more familiar with ballistics and intricacies of marksmanship.
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I can just pick one. If you have a bad leader in the beginning that doesn't communicate well, then that goes with you,. If in basic you hit the bottom of the qual chart they still send you packing, with out proper training in the hope that the unit will teach you better. Hand to hand now a days sucks in the army. they teach you to fight on the ground. I want to learn how to kill the enemy in hand to hand and if I get down then I'll worry about that. This is the reason we where the best WWI, WW II, Korea. We fought to Live and survive. Not lay down on the ground and shrimp! Planning usually starts at the top and the bottom follows. If your leaders suck when you are young in the military and then roles down. they don't teach Planning they teach follow me. That's not always a good PLAN! Yes you have to follow but if no one teaches you to plan then in later years it will come to haunt you.
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Capt Richard I P.
SGT Bryon Sergent I agree that all of them have serious flaws. I would point out that ground-fighting makes sense as the majority of hand to hand fights end on the ground. The Corps builds together ground fighting, knife and standing fighting and bayonets in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) with requirements for advancement through a rigorous training structure at different ranks.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
We might want to look at bringing some of what the Marine teach! I for one would be in!
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Capt Richard I P.
SGT Bryon Sergent We have the luxury of being smaller and self-selecting upon recruiting. That said, in my very biased opinion, we do a good job, the best in the services, in focusing on lethality. Our methods can always be improved, but our program for unarmed combat and rifle shooting should indeed be emulated by other services.
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I voted plan, based purely on my own experiences , because it seems we teach junior leaders very limited planning capabilities but make them experts at putting out short term, 5 meter, targets. I think the reason we are so 'reactionary' at the Troop level is because we are not conducting planning right at higher echelons. A brief stint in the 3 Shop, and becoming a field grade officer should not be the criteria when we decide to teach our soldiers to look beyond the current week.
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Capt Richard I P.
1LT (Join to see) I agree with you about planning, but more because all of the others fall under it in my mind, failures of any of these skills flow from a leader who didn't plan.
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I believe all of our services do well at instructing marksmanship during their basic training. However, I believe we do a great job of range operations at our home stations - focusing more on the conduct of a safe range versus getting after the need to making on-the-spot corrections.
How do we fix our marksmanship training - it happens at the unit, well before going to the range. It happens during the last 15 minutes before Soldiers leave for lunch or before they go to close out formations. We have to make an investment in this critical skill which is really the purpose for every one of us serving, to effective engage and destroy the enemy...we do that by being able to shot them in the face.
We can and must most improve our marksmanship and you find your unit is having problems qualifying, there is an excellent training course available (Master Marksmanship Course http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/02/27/course-aims-to-improve-marksmanship-across-army.html )
It is imperative that our force is grounded in rifle marksmanship fundamentals and are willing and able to engage and destroy the enemy with precision shooting.
How do we fix our marksmanship training - it happens at the unit, well before going to the range. It happens during the last 15 minutes before Soldiers leave for lunch or before they go to close out formations. We have to make an investment in this critical skill which is really the purpose for every one of us serving, to effective engage and destroy the enemy...we do that by being able to shot them in the face.
We can and must most improve our marksmanship and you find your unit is having problems qualifying, there is an excellent training course available (Master Marksmanship Course http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/02/27/course-aims-to-improve-marksmanship-across-army.html )
It is imperative that our force is grounded in rifle marksmanship fundamentals and are willing and able to engage and destroy the enemy with precision shooting.
Course Aims to Improve Marksmanship Across Army
In June 2014, Maj. Gen. Scott Miller addressed an area many leaders in the operational Army had expressed concerns about - marksmanship.
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Capt Richard I P.
CSM Michael J. Uhlig I agree... because shooting is the most important military skill...http://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-is-the-most-important-military-skill?page=9&urlhash=530786#530786
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MAJ (Join to see)
The Army does a horrible job training basic marksmanship. So far I've not been able to find more than a handful of NCO's who can accurately explain why a bullet rises after it is fired. And so far none who can explain why you sight in a laser to the side of where you are aiming. Our record fire (practical exercise) provides no feedback into what we are doing wrong, and the extreme limits in ammunition (49 rounds was all I had for my entire mobilization and deployment training) and that was a field unit. The Army does well at training infantry how to shoot but fail miserably at combat support/service support units.
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So I'm going to say we're the very worst at all of these. I can't count the number of times I have been ANGRY, like table-flipping mad about failures in each one of these. It's like they're unending.
But you know, we're better than everyone else at them too. The other militaries I've spent time with don't hold a candle to us on any of these. We are the very best at all of them in aggregate. So like Churchill kind of said "We are the worst, except for all the others."
But that's a cop-out. I force other people to pick one so I'm going to also:
Planning.
When anything fails it is a failure in leadership A failure to train or to communicate or to prepare properly. And that means some leader, somewhere failed to plan properly.
How do we fix it? Hold eachother to the standards. Think critically, challenge 'the way it is' and make it make sense. Remember our purpose, what mission accomplishment means: being the most lethal fighting force out there. Be ready to drop stuff that doesn't serve that.
But you know, we're better than everyone else at them too. The other militaries I've spent time with don't hold a candle to us on any of these. We are the very best at all of them in aggregate. So like Churchill kind of said "We are the worst, except for all the others."
But that's a cop-out. I force other people to pick one so I'm going to also:
Planning.
When anything fails it is a failure in leadership A failure to train or to communicate or to prepare properly. And that means some leader, somewhere failed to plan properly.
How do we fix it? Hold eachother to the standards. Think critically, challenge 'the way it is' and make it make sense. Remember our purpose, what mission accomplishment means: being the most lethal fighting force out there. Be ready to drop stuff that doesn't serve that.
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Capt Richard I P.
CPT Michael Barden Yeah... I'll grudgingly give the Brits their due, but there's some variance in their different units, like ours I suppose but I wouldn't put them on our level on average either.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
I voted Communication as I see it as the key element of the Planning, and you seemed to indicate the same.
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Capt Richard I P.
Cpl Christopher Bishop, So I am cheating rhetorical, but only because I'm forcing myself to pick one. A leader who cannot communicate well has failed to plan by not knowing himself and seeking self improvement. In the end any failing falls on a leader who didn't plan to overcome a challenge.
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That great good also resides within every human being just as the ability to kill.
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SPC Allison Joy Cumming
Capt Richard Porter, to me it is both. Training to understand the full capacity of our abilities takes great skill.
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Teach! We don't teach our instructors how to teach. Teachers and educators go through years of school to become entry level teachers. then they practice their skill year after year, day after day. We go though about a week of "how to make a power point presentation" then send our newest instructors on their way!
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Capt Richard I P.
Sir, I think I lumped it under 'communication' but Ive been table-flippingly mad at the rote introductions 'good morning class'...no I said "GOOD MORNING CLASS"...." today I'm going to be giving you a class by the lecture method aided by my power point presentation, good to go? Go ahead and read your TLOs and ELOS..."
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