Posted on Aug 10, 2014
CPT Public Affairs Officer
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Strategically, who do you think the blame falls with? Is it Paul Bremer, GWB, or do you blame some of the senior leaders for screwing OIF up?

Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.

Thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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SGT Team Leader
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The Iraqi government.
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SSG Stephen Keown
SSG Stephen Keown
11 y
I believe this result can be blamed on the currant administration ,advertising when out troops were leaving, pulling all troops out .not having a SOF agreement in place .the troops won the war , the politicians lost the war.to get the SOF they could have used the price of the war as the bargaining chip ,seams to me the State department needs to hold joint blame with the President
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MSG Senior Supply/Service Sergeant
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11 y
Lt Generals do what they are paid for. No nation building. The are exists to break things and kill people. We do not have an obligation to make other countries develop the same ideal and beliefs that we do. Help them yes, do it for them, no.
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MSG Senior Supply/Service Sergeant
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11 y
Sorry for the misprints . I meant Let generals do what they are paid to do and Armies break things and kill people. Same principles our enemies pursue
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PO3 Machinist's Mate
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11 y
Simply put and correct!
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MAJ Jim Woods
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Edited >1 y ago
I do not believe that WE failed in Iraq. Once Maliki decided not to renew the Status of Forces Agreement, our President was right in pulling us out.

That aside, we never lost a battle, we (the Military) left the country in good shape, and the Iraqi government blew it. I have used this analogy before but it was Vietnam Deja Vu. Not our fault.

If some would have stayed, I am positive that the Iraqis would be in better shape now than when we left. But without that Status of Forces Agreement, a Soldier could be tried in the Iraqi Courts for ANYTHING that they didn't like.

And, for an additional 2 cents, we left the wrong country.
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LTC Barry Hull
LTC Barry Hull
>1 y
Another thought... By my understanding, the US Military is charged with destroying governments, not building them. How did we get in this business? Is it because the Department of State is so inept that we are the default organization? The only federal department that can actually accomplish a mission?
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1SG Harold Piet
1SG Harold Piet
>1 y
I feel we have wasted lives in Korea, Vietnam. Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan because our job is to defeat an enemy but our government in Washington who has not been to military training chooses to tell the military how to fight instead of giving us a clear mission order and allowing the department of defense to plan and execute. Any country that we fight for should pay the total cost and if they are to poor to pay their way ( oil money) then after we win the war we annex the country or let one of our allies to annex it.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
MSG Mitch Dowler
11 y
The president did not negotiate the SOFA, he just used it as an excuse. The local governments always try to screw us on SOFA and we negotiate a deal to fix. The CIC was looking for an excuse to cover his failure.
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1SG Harold Piet
1SG Harold Piet
11 y
The President and Congress decide what needs done and where, Issues the mission or request an estimate of time and money needed and Congress and POTUS approves and issues DOD orders, DOD calls together Department heads plans mission and gives orders to subordinates to execute, Host Country and Politicians left out at this time until completion of mission. Then DOD a would be looking out for mission and people while managing $$ anything different has unqualified people telling Qualified people how to do their job. = Failure
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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Edited >1 y ago
It was a political promise made by the President to pull the troops out, but I am in no way blaming the President. The Iraqis have a cultural of laziness and when their military is faced with a challenge, they don't run to it to destroy it, they drop their weapons and run. They are cowards and our military trained them to be Soldiers, and I am not sure if they even deserve to be called Soldiers. We can train them, but we can't teach courage and bravery. The Iraqis had the training and equipment to be an effective military but they seem to lack the will and the courage to live.
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SFC Explosive Ordnance Disposal Specialist
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They lacked tenacity.
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CPT Battery Commander
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SSgt (Join to see) We didn't "leave to quickly". We didn't just call it quits, and give up. We were forced to withdraw when the current administration chose not to renew a SOFA that would have protected and furthered our presence there. The president cant be held responsible for the state of affairs when we left the country in a good position. All the Iraqi government had to do was maintain itself, the infrastructure that we put in place, and its people/security.

"The Boss" is one man..., and cant be held fully responsible for ANYTHING that happens in our own nation since we have an entire government at work, let alone what happens in another nation with its own government structure.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SSG (ret) William Martin
>1 y
Right, now I remember the SOFA agreement. There wasn't a final positive choice made for out SMs so we got out. Maybe that was the President's plan. I am very thankful to be out of Iraq though, and I don't want to go back, and but I hate what Iraq is becoming now though.
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LTC Barry Hull
LTC Barry Hull
>1 y
I agree with a lot of what the SSG from Bliss but a lot of it is what a man feels is worth dying for. For many Iraqis, it wasn't the country but the family. But the Inshalla attitude is pervasive in the Mideast.
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Who do you think is responsible for our failure in Iraq?
COL Strategic Plans Chief
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A few things here. If we're doing a FLIPL on this thing, the proximate cause is the decision to invade in the first place. However, since it's not, I'll jump on the decision to disband the systems under the seat of power. Purging Batthists was probably a bad way to go. But...and this is a big but...the Iraqi Government and culture share a huge portion of the blame. Let's say America get's it's ass handed to it by...I don't know, let's say Kazakstan. It's just a "for instance," bear with me. We have 10 years to build a capable military. The American mindset, even after defeat, would have been able to build a force (with the guidance and a SHITE-TON of cash from Kazakstan) capable of withstanding an attempted take-over by the Grays Harbor County Patriot Militia (I chose a home state militia so no one would get their knickers in a twist). Corruption on the grand scale that exists in the governments in the middle east do not exist in our (general, publicly held) collective mind as a society. Given the vast amount of money and support and guidance and weapons provided to Iraq, they should have been able to stop ISL in Mosul.
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CPT Robert Skinner
CPT Robert Skinner
>1 y
LTC Halvorson,

I understand your argument, however, they weren't us, and failed to build a capable platoon, let alone a battalion. General officers don't want to admit there counterparts are less than capable, but having Iraqi soldier refuse to maintain their equipment, or fail to enforce the basics is what caused Iraq to be taken over by ISIL. Fudging their capability due to political pressure happened in Iraq, because once we were told we were pulling out, all of a sudden Iraqi battalion were fit to fight.
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1SG Ronald Philips
1SG Ronald Philips
11 y
I am speaking as a Vietnam vet, so please excuse the time gap. I saw the same thing happen in Nam. Once the National Command Authority decided to pull out due to political and public pressure back home, we were order to prepare the Vietnamese Military for self defense. While some of the units were fully mission capable, the majority of the military was not.
When North Vietnam invaded (after our "withdrawal" in accordance with the peace agreement) the mainline military could not hold. The command staff in units disappeared, supply and transport units became get the family out of harms way units, and finally many of the men just walked away. These are many of the same reasons that we have seen in every fight since then.
Lack of national will, corruption in country, corruption within our own ranks, as well as the last man out syndrome.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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11 y
And that's the problem with "nation building." If someone is dumb enough to send me to the War College, I am going to focus my writing on Total War (not the video game) and what the military should be doing.
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1SG Patrick Sims
1SG Patrick Sims
11 y
Our failures in Iraq can be traced to one person in the Obama Administration. Iranian born Muslim Valéry Jarrett. She had major input in every bad decision that has come out of the White House.
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CSM William Payne
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Jay Garner had a plan, which he was just starting to implement. When Paul Bremer came in and Garner was out Bremer implemented the debathazation of the Iraqi Government and military and that was the beginning of the chaos. The biggest of many mistakes we made in Iraq, if you even agree we should have been there to begin with, especially in light of what we were doing in Afghanistan at the time. We planned for the invasion, but not for the aftermath. Bremer didn't come up with that brilliant decision by himself, those above him would have never given him that authority. So who's call was it? Was worth it to dispose Saddam? If he was still in power Al-Qaeda would be minimal and ISIS would not be in Iraq. Invading Iraq also prolonged the war in Afghanistan. The Bush administration pick to run the Iraqi Government , Ahmed Chalabi turned out to be a joke and provided a lot of the misinformation we used to invade Iraq to begin with, but al-Maliki has not turned out much better and is to blame for the current political climate in Iraq. His persecution of the Kurds and Sunnis has led to the current situation. There are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq. It took the United States 89 years to have another war to figure out democracy and we are as dysfunctional today as we have ever been. There is a reason that George Washington opposed the development of political parties . . . and we expect countries in the middle east to figure it out in a little over 10 years?
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Lt Col Strategic Planning Officer
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Very good points...we like to pretend democracy is easy but it wasn't for us so why do we expect other countries to pick it up so quickly?
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SSG Johnathan Stoor
SSG Johnathan Stoor
11 y
Spot on CSM....I saw this happening from the get go working in the CFLCC HQ during the invasion. One day we could travel into Baghdad relatively unaccosted, and the next, after we essentially fired the Iraqi military, we had an insurgency. I hope there are many "lessons learned" written and taught at places like the SGM academy, CHSC ETC....too bad we don't have leadership academies for policy makers.
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MAJ Brian Anderson
MAJ Brian Anderson
>1 y
CSM, excellent points. I have read George Washington's Farewell Address several times. His writings are eerily prophetic in regards to our Nation and political parties.

I remember vividly (in 2003) when Baghdad went from a relatively quasi calm environment to a very uncomfortable silence and commencement of insurgent attacks. The whole thing was/is a mess. I remember a General, who I will leave nameless at this time, stating (paraphrased) that "We, have never encountered an enemy like this before" (referencing the start of IEDs and insurgent activities et al). Apparently the General had not ever read or studied history, e.g. Phillipines, Vietnam and our own horilla style attacks during our fight for independence. Unfortunately, I do not believe that the way our politicians and a large populace of the GOs in DoD will ever be able to see past their own opaque lens they view World Affairs. I enjoyed reading your post CSM. Take care.
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MSG (Other / Not listed)
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>1 y
Looking forward, may I suggest the 2015 National Military strategy from http://www.jcs.mil/Media/Publications.aspx. Compliments of General's Demsey, Miley, and the folks at XVIII CORPS.
Things is looking up, folks!
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SFC Executive Commo Team
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We pulled out too early just like we always do. We start something and the American people get tired of it so they demand that we "send all the troops home"! I guess Vietnam didn't teach us anything huh?
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
MSG(P) Michael Warrick
>1 y
BLUF - The Iraqi government !!
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SFC Steve Welsch
SFC Steve Welsch
>1 y
I feel that Donald Rumsfeld is to blame for the failures that incurred in Iraq. He should have listened to his military leaders a lot more, Perhaps things may have been better had we began sealing up the borders immediately. Getting more assistance from Coalition Forces would have been helpful as well. Another thing that went wrong, is that the US went from Conventional Warfare to Unconventional too quickly.
Bottom line, we really didn't have a plan at all. It was more of a guided discovery mission.
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MSG Senior Supply/Service Sergeant
MSG (Join to see)
11 y
Instead of going "B$lls to the wall, why didn't we covertly meet with Saddam's Generals to find which ones would be with us if we took out Saddam, instead of destroying their army? We then could have helped them rebuild it from the top down. Also, who decided to by-pass their ammo dumps without destroying them. There would have been a lot less IED's.
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CDR Surface Warfare Officer
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11 y
Their was a strategic mistake of politicians against will of military leader in not allowing any Iraqi that had any political affiliation in previous government to hold a position in the new. Anyone with any professional expertise was forced by Sadam to join the party and some were tribal leaders that people trusted. So instead of finding out who wanted to support a new gov't, we pushed them to irrelevance or leaving.

The next was Iraq not renewing SOFA which was already mentioned.

The trying to keep many different religious factions as one country with one govt when some hate each other enough to kill each other.
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SFC Explosive Ordnance Disposal Specialist
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I don't know what more we could have done other than jamming Old Glory in the ground and calling it a new State of the Union. We spent years and billions and gallons of blood making the best possible scenario for a government to be on it's feet and running in full offense mode towards the end zone, the ball was dropped, in my opinion, after we left the field.
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LTC Barry Hull
LTC Barry Hull
>1 y
I am not sure where this manifest destiny attitude we have that we are supposed to spread democracy across the globe came from. I learned from my deployments that democracy cannot be forced on a people that do not want it. The desire, the fire must come from within. the Kurds have it but the rest of Iraq, not so much. I don''t know what political issue prevents us from helping the Kurds. I agree SFC, we had done all we could do as far as nation building goes.
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SSG Jim Husselman
SSG Jim Husselman
11 y
Hooaah
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SSG Jim Husselman
SSG Jim Husselman
11 y
Cannot save those who do not want saved.
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SFC Phillip Allen
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It was a mistake to go to Iraq in the first place, after multiple deployments to that cesspool of a country, I can tell you it was never going to be what we thought it should be, they didn't, and still don't, want what we were offering.

I truly hate to think that it was all a waste of lives and money, but the point is it was. I think Pres Obama made the right decision to leave, it's what America wanted, and he delivered, and anybody who was there and actually paying attention knew it was a lost cause, and would fall apart once we left, whenever that might have been.

The biggest mistake was made after WWII when the Allies forced people who didn't want to be a country to become a country namely, Iraq, and we forced Israel on the Middle East without regard for the impact that would have, we just wanted to insure that the Jewish people felt better after Holocaust. Point being it wasn't our business then, it wasn't our business 10 years ago, and it's not our business now. I say let them sort it out themselves, and protect the homeland, and if they come at us again, then we do exactly what we intended to do after 9-11, we figure out who did it, track them down, and wipe them out, as an example, and then we go back home, and stop wasting American money and lives on people who don't even like us, not even a little bit.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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Blaming Bremer and his cronies will undoubtedly be a popular choice for disbanding the military they way they did. However, I blame the Iraqi government for the current situation.
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
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CW2 Automotive Maintenance Warrant Officer
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Who said we failed in Iraq?
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LTC Barry Hull
LTC Barry Hull
>1 y
Maliki was just another thug. Not much of a list to choose from in Iraq.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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LTC Barry Hull , lesser of many evils? Perhaps. But, if that were true, it didn't stay that way.
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SSG Jacob Wiley
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Edited >1 y ago
Iraqis are to blame, with a little help from rushing us out to win political points and be able to boast "I ended the war in iraq". That was advised against...it, like most things, fell on deaf ears.

In general - blame which ever side - WE still haven't learned a lesson about those people. The folks over there, Iraq and Afghanistan, do not give a damn. They are lazy, they are worthless, they are filth. They do not fight for anything, they sit back and say "help me mista", holding their hands out for food, and everything else that can be provided FOR them.

It was foolish to think that animals could be trained to give a damn, become organized and fend for themselves. If that was an inaccurate statement - why are have they fallen apart again?

Like 1LT John Martin said, " ...a lazy Iraqi Army and Intelligence structure that didn't do systematic checks...Leadership at all levels should have been...recruited informants and sore losers from insurgent groups..."

Once the US left and quit watching, quit DOING for them - they also quit. This time when we go in there, the military should do what it's for: kill them. Kill every goat loving one of them that is identified as hostile, then turn around and leave. No more hand holding, no more years rebuilding and playing teacher. Find, fix, and destroy - come home.
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