Posted on Aug 10, 2014
Who do you think is responsible for our failure in Iraq?
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Strategically, who do you think the blame falls with? Is it Paul Bremer, GWB, or do you blame some of the senior leaders for screwing OIF up?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 199
I blame the Iraqi government and the infleunce from Iran. The Iraqi government failed by not wrapping their arms around the Sunnis and Kurds. That is their failure. Our Armed Forces did their jobs along with our government support. I was personally a part of the Awakening process in Iraq when the Sunnis helped the US rid the Anbar province of Al Qaeda. If the Iraqi government would bring these two groups on board and include them into their Armed Forces or let them be responsible for their sectors and support them with government funds Iraq would be secured. The most important thing of all is to stop listening to Iran and run their own country. I think Iraq could be stable.
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Their Government we gave them the tools and the training. You cannot instill a nations pride and the call to freedom without struggle. Their own people are not willing to stand up and take the reigns on this. Personally I would love to go back there I think there are a lot of us on here that have unfinished business over there.
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SSG Gerhard S.
So true MSgt.... a large part of the problem is that there is NO sense of nationhood among the Iraqis. After all, weren't parts of 3 countries/cultures combined when Churchill drew the lines creating the borders of Iraq? They are tribal-religious oriented and lack a cohesive nation based identity.
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The first failure was us going in and destabilizing the country. Yes, Saddam was a ruthless dictator, but he also represented a stable Iraq, no matter how great our issues were with his policies.
The second failure was all Nouri al-Maliki. Members of both sides of the US political coin - caveat: the ones who actually think strategy and mission accomplishment, rather than just brown nosing the popular opinion - knew we were withdrawing far too soon. We approached Maliki for stay of complete departure until the Iraqi forces were truly ready multiple times (no argument as to whether that would ever had occurred), and he kept shooting the proposal down under the mantra that US forces had achieved enough. (It also didn't help that he is corrupt to the bone.)
The second failure was all Nouri al-Maliki. Members of both sides of the US political coin - caveat: the ones who actually think strategy and mission accomplishment, rather than just brown nosing the popular opinion - knew we were withdrawing far too soon. We approached Maliki for stay of complete departure until the Iraqi forces were truly ready multiple times (no argument as to whether that would ever had occurred), and he kept shooting the proposal down under the mantra that US forces had achieved enough. (It also didn't help that he is corrupt to the bone.)
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The politicians are to blame for the miss handling of OIF with all their rules of ingagement, if they would have let us do our jobs we would not be in this mess.
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George W Bush. He was president and commander in chief. He said that Iraq was awash in WMD's and a threat to the United States. none of which was true. His war has destabilized the middle east for decades to come.
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SGM (Join to see)
Liberals love to say, "There were no WMDs!" It just FLAT OUT A LIE. Chemical and biological weapons are WMDs. No NUCLEAR weapons were found, but the truth has never stopped a liberal from shouting his slogan.
It's also fair to state that Iraqi WMD "scientists" were lying to Saddam to keep their cushy jobs. Saddam believed them, and he was there with them, so perhaps there is an excuse for us believing them as well.
It's also fair to state that Iraqi WMD "scientists" were lying to Saddam to keep their cushy jobs. Saddam believed them, and he was there with them, so perhaps there is an excuse for us believing them as well.
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SPC Philip Logan
I beg to differ. What was found was badly degraded munitions manufactured prior to the first Iraq war. In any event the Bush invasion created a haven for Al Qaeda and now ISIS or ISIL that did not exist prior to 2003. Calling someone a liberal does not change the fact that Bush's war was the greatest victory for Islamic extremism. While Obama has his faults in regards to foreign policy he can't be blamed for the Iraqi misadventure that began in 2003. From first to last OIF was a Bush created catastrophe. I am just sorry so many of our brave men and women paid the price for it. Incidentally, I am not a "liberal" but a conservative veteran of the first Gulf war. But "I calls it as I sees it."
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SGM (Join to see)
I am aware of the large cache of badly degraded munitions found in the north. You aren't seriously suggesting that was the only cache? I am also aware of the two vans containing remote handling equipment as well as equipment for developing bacteria. Everything for "pharmaceuticals" was present except the sterilizer, which would be necessary to produce agricultural pharmaceuticals. In short, they were for making biotoxins.
I've heard before the war called a victory for Islamic extremism. What I don't hear is a comprehensive plan in place of it. Leave them alone? Like we did Al Capone? Depend on someone else to do it? (Arab countries agitated for this as early as the first gulf war, but long on talk and short on action.)
I am less impressed by armchair quarterbacking than I am by liberalism. Could it have been done better? Damn straight. Should it have been done? I am sure something needed to be done. If Bush hadn't jammed 12000 soldiers into Camp Doha, we might have continued the diplomatic way, but SOMETHING had to be done.
In my critique, I offered 4 things that the Bush administration could have done better. I'm waiting for the FIRST from you. I'm not giving Bush a free pass or rubber stamp. Saying you don't like the something, but not offering anything better ... sad.
I've heard before the war called a victory for Islamic extremism. What I don't hear is a comprehensive plan in place of it. Leave them alone? Like we did Al Capone? Depend on someone else to do it? (Arab countries agitated for this as early as the first gulf war, but long on talk and short on action.)
I am less impressed by armchair quarterbacking than I am by liberalism. Could it have been done better? Damn straight. Should it have been done? I am sure something needed to be done. If Bush hadn't jammed 12000 soldiers into Camp Doha, we might have continued the diplomatic way, but SOMETHING had to be done.
In my critique, I offered 4 things that the Bush administration could have done better. I'm waiting for the FIRST from you. I'm not giving Bush a free pass or rubber stamp. Saying you don't like the something, but not offering anything better ... sad.
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COL Ted Mc
SGM; You ask "You aren't seriously suggesting that was the only cache?". How many caches of non-functional weapons does it take to conduct a chemical/biological attack?
You say "I am also aware of the two vans containing remote handling equipment as well as equipment for developing bacteria.". Need I remind you that even the US Government has admitted that those vans were exactly what the Iraqi government had been claiming them to be - mobile hydrogen production facilities?
Now, does anyone really care what "The Bush Administration" could have done better? The real question is "What are we going to do the next time?" (coupled, of course, [says the cynic in me] with "And how can we prevent it costing us votes?").
You say "I am also aware of the two vans containing remote handling equipment as well as equipment for developing bacteria.". Need I remind you that even the US Government has admitted that those vans were exactly what the Iraqi government had been claiming them to be - mobile hydrogen production facilities?
Now, does anyone really care what "The Bush Administration" could have done better? The real question is "What are we going to do the next time?" (coupled, of course, [says the cynic in me] with "And how can we prevent it costing us votes?").
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The failure is due to several factors. First, we have tried to install democracies in nations where dictators or tribal chieftans have historically been the power in each nation. Second, and maybe most important is our failure to understand the cultures. We made the same mistake in Vietnam and did not learn our lesson. For a democracy to take hold there must be a higher level of education so the people can understand the fallacy of their current leaders goals and what could be achieved in a democracy. Finally, islam. Anyone who does not believe in islam is an infidel and therefore must die, according to the koran. The key tenet of the governing law is sharia law and that is based in the koran. Democracy will never work in the middle east and as long as islam is present, we will be at war with these people. Better to obliterate them than have them annilate the world, which is their goal.
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