Posted on Aug 10, 2014
Who do you think is responsible for our failure in Iraq?
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Strategically, who do you think the blame falls with? Is it Paul Bremer, GWB, or do you blame some of the senior leaders for screwing OIF up?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 199
I disagree with your premise that we failed.
The only thing we failed at was pulling out too soon and not giving the government a chance to really get things under control. Same thing the Russians did in Afghanistan and we are doing all over again. It's a cycle we have been repeating for over 70 years now. Knock down a government/leader and then leave. The power vaccuum creates these groups (Taliban/ISIS type groups. Heck look at Iran. We set up the government there and basically started a lot of this crap by helping overhtrow their government in the 50's. If you don't go in and really rebuild (Japan/Germany after WW2, South Korea) then you are basically asking for some numbskulls to go in a royally F things up.
The only thing we failed at was pulling out too soon and not giving the government a chance to really get things under control. Same thing the Russians did in Afghanistan and we are doing all over again. It's a cycle we have been repeating for over 70 years now. Knock down a government/leader and then leave. The power vaccuum creates these groups (Taliban/ISIS type groups. Heck look at Iran. We set up the government there and basically started a lot of this crap by helping overhtrow their government in the 50's. If you don't go in and really rebuild (Japan/Germany after WW2, South Korea) then you are basically asking for some numbskulls to go in a royally F things up.
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I think whomever came up with the grand idea to tell the media we have an exit plan...so probably both are to blame. There can be no exit plan if we want ensured success.
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SFC (Join to see)
Agreed. Sadr city just waited and waited... once the exit plan was in effect - they killed a lot of the other parties.
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In all fairness I blame Obama... but then he's not a military man, he didn't get any real leadership training, he never served, the closest thing to a job he's had was as a constitutional law professor and apparently not a very good one, so military strategy is beyond his grasp and he knows nothing of combat.
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The president. He was too worried about keeping a political promise and didn't do or work hard enough for American interests
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SFC (Join to see)
Which one? I think everyone in Congress, Senate, White House since 2000 till now is to take some sort of blame.
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How the hell do you make such inflammatory comments, with an "I'm not looking to start a debate" caveat. Chicken$hit way to start a discussion.
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Last I checked, the Kurdish military I helped train was holding their own against ISIS in and around Kirkuk. The only aspect of the war that "failed" was the media.
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In hindsight I realize that Arab populations just so far have not been able to for any sort of democratic government. The really seem to need a strongman in charge. Iraq is no different unfortunately. The question of "who broke it" might be made moot by the question of "could it (an Arab democracy) ever have worked in the first place?".
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I guess it depends on what you deem a failure?
Vietnam was ended less due to military tactical or strategic weakness on our part and more due to a hostile media at the time turning public opinion against it (regardless of if it was a good or bad war to be involved in, that was why the US pulled out.)
The same was true with Iraq and, largely, Afghanistan (though there you also had top down blunders by the elected civilian leadership thinking they were better at directing wars than the Generals.) Instead of talking about our victories, the media largely focused on the death count. This was also shown o be nothing more than media political bias, as those reports came to an abrupt end in 2009 (when we had 2k troops die in Iraq it was on all the major news outlets. When we crossed that same number in Afghanistan, the media was basically silent.)
So instead of praising he efforts of our military, only failures or abises were mentioned. This tainted public opinion, and is also a large reason for the aversion to "boots on the ground" now. Americans have been convinced that fighting a "war" is bad, but that bombing people isn't really war, so that's Kay. Overall, this actually leads to more instability, as we've seen in Libya and Yemen.
I could be wrong, but I've become convinced that wars in the modern era are won and lost, not by tactics, capabilities, or strategies, but instead by median and their shaping of public opinion.
The only role strategy now plays is to attempt to end the war before the media driven public opinion has turned against it. If you end the war quickly, before the public mood sours, it is a "victory" (fisry Gulf War). If you do not, it is a "quagmire" (Vietnam, Afghanistan) until you pull out and the enemy retakes wham you bested them to get in the first place. Then it becomes a "failure" (Iraq).
Maybe I'm wrong, though...?
Vietnam was ended less due to military tactical or strategic weakness on our part and more due to a hostile media at the time turning public opinion against it (regardless of if it was a good or bad war to be involved in, that was why the US pulled out.)
The same was true with Iraq and, largely, Afghanistan (though there you also had top down blunders by the elected civilian leadership thinking they were better at directing wars than the Generals.) Instead of talking about our victories, the media largely focused on the death count. This was also shown o be nothing more than media political bias, as those reports came to an abrupt end in 2009 (when we had 2k troops die in Iraq it was on all the major news outlets. When we crossed that same number in Afghanistan, the media was basically silent.)
So instead of praising he efforts of our military, only failures or abises were mentioned. This tainted public opinion, and is also a large reason for the aversion to "boots on the ground" now. Americans have been convinced that fighting a "war" is bad, but that bombing people isn't really war, so that's Kay. Overall, this actually leads to more instability, as we've seen in Libya and Yemen.
I could be wrong, but I've become convinced that wars in the modern era are won and lost, not by tactics, capabilities, or strategies, but instead by median and their shaping of public opinion.
The only role strategy now plays is to attempt to end the war before the media driven public opinion has turned against it. If you end the war quickly, before the public mood sours, it is a "victory" (fisry Gulf War). If you do not, it is a "quagmire" (Vietnam, Afghanistan) until you pull out and the enemy retakes wham you bested them to get in the first place. Then it becomes a "failure" (Iraq).
Maybe I'm wrong, though...?
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CPO Wally Briones
If they left the decision to the military generals we would have won the war in Vietnam.Politician are deciding every military move.
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1. Iraqis.
2. I never bought into the stupid idea that what's going on there now is the USA ' s fault. The Iraqi view of freedom and independence isn't even culturally similar to ours. The Bush and Obama administrations never faced reality. I don't say this out of racism or any of that kind of crap, but my personal experience.
3. You'll see similar results in Afghanistan very soon.
2. I never bought into the stupid idea that what's going on there now is the USA ' s fault. The Iraqi view of freedom and independence isn't even culturally similar to ours. The Bush and Obama administrations never faced reality. I don't say this out of racism or any of that kind of crap, but my personal experience.
3. You'll see similar results in Afghanistan very soon.
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SFC (Join to see)
Iraqis have a third world education, tribal system, and had no real resources. I think they share the smallest blame. I do agree their freedom is way different then ours. Both admins I feel are the ones who share the biggest share of blame for failure.
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