44
44
0
I've always wondered this. What is the history and tradition behind having a red and white, swallow-tailed guidon?
UPDATE: A member said it is because the US Cavalry traces it's linage to European Dragoons and Dragoons are often associated with red and white. This makes a lot of sense. So the next question is why are Dragoons red and white?
UPDATE: A member said it is because the US Cavalry traces it's linage to European Dragoons and Dragoons are often associated with red and white. This makes a lot of sense. So the next question is why are Dragoons red and white?
Cavalry
19D: Cavalry Scout
19C: Cavalry Officer
Military History
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 71
4
4
0
So here is some more colors to throw at you. The 2nd Regiment of Dragoons ,( 2ND Dragoon/ 2ND ACR/ 2ND CR official color is Orange). Look at the Regimental flag. You will miss that question on your promotion board.
(4)
(0)
PFC David Gettman
Finally someone who knows Dragoon orange! HOOAH!!! Have to correct you on the Regimental "flag" though. It is called a Standard, not a flag. During the Civil War, it was blue, now it is yellow.
(0)
(0)
PFC David Gettman
FYI...On May 3rd, 1861, the President issued a proclamation increasing the regular army size, one of the additions being another regiment of cavalry. With the two regiments of Dragoons and one of mounted riflemen there were now six mounted regiments. An act of Congress of August 3rd changed the designation of the regiments so that all were known as cavalry.
In this way the First Dragoons became the First Cavalry, the Second Dragoons became the Second Cavalry, the Mounted Riflemen became the Third Cavalry, the First Cavalry became the Fourth Cavalry, the Second Cavalry became the Fifth Cavalry, and the Third Cavalry became the Sixth Cavalry. Up to this time each had its various marks and among these were the facings of the uniforms, orange for Dragoons, green for Riflemen, and yellow for Cavalry. The Dragoons were now forced to give up their beloved orange color and adopt the common color of yellow. As they were allowed to wear out uniforms now having orange for facings, it was late in 1863 before the old colors disappeared.
In this way the First Dragoons became the First Cavalry, the Second Dragoons became the Second Cavalry, the Mounted Riflemen became the Third Cavalry, the First Cavalry became the Fourth Cavalry, the Second Cavalry became the Fifth Cavalry, and the Third Cavalry became the Sixth Cavalry. Up to this time each had its various marks and among these were the facings of the uniforms, orange for Dragoons, green for Riflemen, and yellow for Cavalry. The Dragoons were now forced to give up their beloved orange color and adopt the common color of yellow. As they were allowed to wear out uniforms now having orange for facings, it was late in 1863 before the old colors disappeared.
(2)
(0)
3
3
0
Who is the father of the US Calvary ?
And that persons country of origin is the same color as the the Calvary flag. Now it maybe a coincidence but it would be a true sign of loyalty and respect to a General who laid down his life for this country.
Semper Fi
And that persons country of origin is the same color as the the Calvary flag. Now it maybe a coincidence but it would be a true sign of loyalty and respect to a General who laid down his life for this country.
Semper Fi
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Infantry = Blue. Cav = Red.
Here is why, from the perspective of a young and cocky Grunt: Blue shows blood, when seeping through. Infantry never gets hit, so we do not bleed. So we wear the more flashy color. Cav knows that they are not as skilled as Grunts, so they want to look like they can keep up. so they wear red so as not to show their blood and thereby try to be as intimidating as their friendly neighborhood ground-pounders. It all comes down to this: Cav wants to be Infantry, so they try to hide their weakness.
In all seriousness though; Cavalry is the Colonial answer to the English Dragoons, this is true. What many do not know is that English "red coats," or Infantry wore a darker shade of red and an off-white pantaloons. Dragoons (mounted combatants) wore a brighter red coat and brilliant-white pants so that they could be better identified on the battlefield through the smoke and haze of the musket and cannon fire. This helped not only the commanders control their forces, but also allowed the lightmen to rally around their symbols of power on the field. Because The Dragoons always had the high ground (being mounted above the regular foot soldiers), they were seen as the powerhouse of Colonial battlefields.
Carrying on with tradition, Cavalry kept the red and white of the English Dragoon fighters, because they were the model and predecessor of the modern Cavalry.
Here is why, from the perspective of a young and cocky Grunt: Blue shows blood, when seeping through. Infantry never gets hit, so we do not bleed. So we wear the more flashy color. Cav knows that they are not as skilled as Grunts, so they want to look like they can keep up. so they wear red so as not to show their blood and thereby try to be as intimidating as their friendly neighborhood ground-pounders. It all comes down to this: Cav wants to be Infantry, so they try to hide their weakness.
In all seriousness though; Cavalry is the Colonial answer to the English Dragoons, this is true. What many do not know is that English "red coats," or Infantry wore a darker shade of red and an off-white pantaloons. Dragoons (mounted combatants) wore a brighter red coat and brilliant-white pants so that they could be better identified on the battlefield through the smoke and haze of the musket and cannon fire. This helped not only the commanders control their forces, but also allowed the lightmen to rally around their symbols of power on the field. Because The Dragoons always had the high ground (being mounted above the regular foot soldiers), they were seen as the powerhouse of Colonial battlefields.
Carrying on with tradition, Cavalry kept the red and white of the English Dragoon fighters, because they were the model and predecessor of the modern Cavalry.
(3)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
TSgt Robert Danley - Only the most hard-charging glorious badasses you will ever meet!
(1)
(0)
Last modified: 2015-04-04 by rick wyatt Keywords: us army | cavalry | guidon | ninth | buffalo soldiers | Links: FOTW homepage | search | disclaimer and copyright | write us | mirrors
(3)
(0)
(1)
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
SFC (Join to see) and SGT Luke Brock
While I can understand why the Death before Surrender became part of the mythos of why it is Red and White...of course 'Dishonor' would not have been white either but will try not to digress.
Seems most likely that the Red and White for the Dragoon guidon carried over from the French. Dragoons having originally been mounted infantry, which was a bit of hybrid for the period...mounted to move across the battle field like cavalry but fighting on foot as standard Infantry, hence the combination of two colors. The Field Marshal could look over at his Red and White unit marker and know he could move the unit across the battlefield as quickly as other cavalry but would be able deploy and hold ground like infantry.
While I can understand why the Death before Surrender became part of the mythos of why it is Red and White...of course 'Dishonor' would not have been white either but will try not to digress.
Seems most likely that the Red and White for the Dragoon guidon carried over from the French. Dragoons having originally been mounted infantry, which was a bit of hybrid for the period...mounted to move across the battle field like cavalry but fighting on foot as standard Infantry, hence the combination of two colors. The Field Marshal could look over at his Red and White unit marker and know he could move the unit across the battlefield as quickly as other cavalry but would be able deploy and hold ground like infantry.
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
Actually the red over white swallow tail pennants predate the reasons you state - they were originally carried by lancers in the 16th Century - later became the lancer pennants in many Napoleonic armies - almost always (however there were some exceptions) RED over WHITE - even the Polish lancers whose national colors were white over red - bore the RED over WHITE pennants. Somewhere along the line of history these pennants became guidons adapted by the MOUNTED TROOPS (cavalry and light artillery) . During the American Civil War the guidons were replaced - (1862 regs) due to the fact that they resembled the Confederate fist national colors (stars and bars, red-white-red) and replaced by Stars and stripes in swallow tail design. Sometime after the war red over withe came into use again - not to say that many units never discarded the red and white guidons in the first place but like many Civil War flags they were often carried until in total tatters . . .
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
As a former cav scout, we were taught red over white was to stand for "death before dishonor". Take death over raising a white flag of surrender.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
2
2
0
There's a great scene in They Came to Cordura, of a cavalry regiment on line, going into battle in Mexico in 1916. Note before they cross the line of departure, while formed on line. the officers and guide-on bearers turn and march to the center, then approach the commander for final instructions. This is the origin of the command, "Officers, center, march" in military parades. And the guide-on bearer was there to ensure HE heard the orders, too, as once the action commenced, the troops followed the guide-on.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Dragons are mounted Infantry which are trained to fight mounted and dismounted. White used to be the color for Infantry so that might explain the white.
(2)
(0)
Cpl John Sanheim
No because the red and white pennants predate the dragoons - they were carried by lancers long before dragoons.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
SSG (Join to see)
MSgt Kurt Stover - The stars and bars was the battle flag of the Army of Virginia, other army's in the Confederacy used their own battle flags and the Confederate States flag was entirely different, some people equate the now so called stars on an X pattern with the Confederate State Flag.
(1)
(0)
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google