Posted on Feb 18, 2014
MAJ Samuel Weber
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Has anyone else noticed that at most military schools the APFT graders seem to grade you harder than your unit? Why is this? Has anyone else seen this?  I remember having to be video taped and having to provide three "example" push-ups prior to my test during my APFT in ANCOC, seemed a little over board at the time. Thoughts?
Posted in these groups: P542 APFT28d14634 NCOESTrain2 Training
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SGM Intelligence Senior Sergeant/Chief Intelligence Sergeant
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They're not….they're graded to Army Standard…it's the units that aren't grading to standard.
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SFC(P) Counterintelligence (CI) Agent
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One time I had an APFT with a grizzly old SFC grading me. He had a yard stick, and said, this yardstick is to make sure you are doing things by the standard. I was extremely nervous about this, because I thought that meant "grade you to fail." That APFT by far was the best and most fairly graded APFT I have ever taken. The standard is the standard, and it is helpful when people grade to the standard, as every other APFT I have to bounce my chest off the ground to "break the plane", whatever that means.
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SFC Operations Ncoic
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I believe the problem lies in that We as NCOs tend to want to stab other NCOs in the back to protect our standing/promotion potential.  The NCO Corps in my opinion has turned into a popularity contest, and anyway some Senior NCO's can get a leg up on their peers they will.  

I've been asked several times throughout my career by officers why NCOs don't spend more time mentoring and guiding their peers and subordinates to take over their jobs; when the officers tend to spend more time mentoring their own.   My only answer has been, we are so driven to perfection that some NCOs will do what ever it takes to make themselves look good and will stand on whoever/whatever to get that 1/1.

I also believe that the MI Corps is probably the worst offenders, but I have personally seen this behavior outside of MI too. 


To directly answer your question, in My opinion, I believe some Senior leaders take pride in how many Soldiers they send home from NCOES.  Thus having something to hold over their fellow CSMs, and proving they are the gate keepers to the NCO Corps.  
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SFC William Swartz Jr
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Having spent 2 1/2 years as and SGL and Sr SGL, I can tell you that we did not grade "harder", we graded to standard. When we were selected as SGLs at Ft. Stewart, one of the classes we went through was the proper grading for the APFT. We know on APFT day there will be whining and complaining from many students because their scores "dropped", but it was due to their incorrect form, mostly on push-ups but to a lesser extent sit-ups as well, that their units would let slide. We were not out there to weed out individuals, we were chosen due to our professionalism to train and mentor young NCOs/Soldiers to become the standard bearers of the future. I used to tell my students all the time, especially when it came to pt, "I will train you to the standard and show you what right looks like, once you get back to your unit however, you will see things that are not to standard, it is up to you to implement change where you can, but ultimately what your PSG/1SG enforces it what your unit's standard will be."

                  "TREAT 'EM ROUGH!!"

                    

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SGT Mitch McKinley
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While I agree with the fact that NCOES schools grade to the standard, I also understand the frustration of the participants during the scoring of the APFT. 
I was a training NCO and was responsible for all the PT tests and height/weight tapes as well as providing oversight of the APFT grading fro our unit. 
I often called reminded graders of the standards for each event when they were grading softly. 
The frustration for me was wen I went to PLDC and they only counted 44 push-ups, citing that I wasn't go down all the way. My arms definitely broke the plain of parallel to the ground. I was typically doing 65-70 push-ups.
The standard is often times interpreted by the graders, and not always properly. 
I have often seen graders say the testee was not going down far enough, when they absolutely were meeting or exceededing the standard. 

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SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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A PT Test should be the easiest day of PT. This is meaning that everyone should be able to complete standards and merits of measure are out there. I think doing 3 push-ups or sit-ups before the event is smarter then not knowing what the grader is expecting. PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC, I had three different types of people grading me. ANCOC was the hardest when I had a SFC/68G grading me, as I was a SSG serving as a PSG inside of an infantry battalion. I probably did the typically 85 push-ups and got up and she scored me in the 80s with 60 some push-ups.
Talked to the "Senior" and he offered that I could retake it with the people that had not met standard at the end of the course, but wouldn't be in the running for the PT award or on the famous 1059. I'm not sure if he even mentioned it to her.
I'm glad the experience is over, as you feel like it's a discredit to your ability, but honestly it's their test and their screw up, either way. If we (NCOs) can't understand these basic essentials, then how are we ever going to tackle the bigger issues.
To close, if people follow the policy and not strive to make this simple test harder or easier than it should be, then we'll never do ourselves the justice of doing something more.
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SFC Signals Intelligence Analyst
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I will concur with everyone else that very few NCOs at regular units seem to grade to the same correct standard as NCOES. This is a huge disservice to the NCO and sets them up for failure. At the very least, the diagnostic APFT that NCO takes immediately before NCOES should be at the same standard as NCOES. When I went to SLC, our graders didn't even tell us our scores. As senior noncommissioned officers, we were supposed to know if we met the standard or not. So you can bet that all of us NCOs were doing very very low push-ups just to make sure.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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The APFT at NCOES, in my experience, is not graded any differently, it is just graded to the standard.  I will admit that my APFT score decreased when I first attended NCOES because I wasn't going all the way down.  I didn't believe it at first, but I did have someone record me doing push ups on my own one day, and I could see that as I got tired my form did not meet the standard.

 

At NCOES, they graded strictly to the standard.  Any sub-standard push-ups and sit-ups do not count.  I have never heard of anyone complaining about the run/walk/bike at NCOES though, but that is probably because it is hard to screw up your form on those.

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CSM Spp Ncoic
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In reality there is a difference although I never have been video taped for a AFPT there are different standards between schools and homes station.  With the removal of MFT from the units a unit will get anyone who is generally available so there is not much continuity. but at a school house the same people do the testing every week and understand the regulations and would not put their integrity into question.
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SFC MLRS/HIMARS Crewmember
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MFTs haven't been removed from the unit. There is a Master Fitness Trainer School located at Fort Jackson, SC . Also, there is no longer a TC 3-22.20, it is FM 7-22 that covers the Army Physical Readiness Training.

 

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SFC Signals Intelligence Analyst
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Maybe not all units have MFTs yet. I know ours does, but we are TRADOC as well.
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