Posted on Jun 18, 2015
Why are so many atheists in the military "in the closet"?
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Atheists in the military, many of us are in the closet about it.
Why is this?
My reasoning is because I would never want to tell someone what they should and should not believe (that's impossible). However, I think it's ridiculous that I have to participate in bowing my head in "group prayer" at award ceremonies and graduations.
I have never attacked anyone based on their beliefs.
Some how it's okay for theists to share their views on religion, but I'm not allowed mine? Why is my opinion considered a threat?
I think freedom from religion should be more widely accepted in our military.
Thoughts?
Why is this?
My reasoning is because I would never want to tell someone what they should and should not believe (that's impossible). However, I think it's ridiculous that I have to participate in bowing my head in "group prayer" at award ceremonies and graduations.
I have never attacked anyone based on their beliefs.
Some how it's okay for theists to share their views on religion, but I'm not allowed mine? Why is my opinion considered a threat?
I think freedom from religion should be more widely accepted in our military.
Thoughts?
Atheism
Religion
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 50
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What is there to 'come out from'? Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher power, so any closet is a self created one.
Bowing your head is simply respecting what others believe IF you do not share those beliefs. Your beliefs are not a threat, by and of themselves, but by self labeling yourself as an atheists you are stating you do not believe?
For the record, it is 'no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' and not 'freedom from religion', no matter what some might try to propagate. In other words, the Federal government cannot establish a single religion or belief...or lack of belief...for a the Nation.
Bowing your head is simply respecting what others believe IF you do not share those beliefs. Your beliefs are not a threat, by and of themselves, but by self labeling yourself as an atheists you are stating you do not believe?
For the record, it is 'no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' and not 'freedom from religion', no matter what some might try to propagate. In other words, the Federal government cannot establish a single religion or belief...or lack of belief...for a the Nation.
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MSG Brad Sand
1stLt Nick S
Interesting. I find it hard to believe you would actually even believe what you are say if it was presented in any other context, other than religion.
I do not think it is okay to judge people by the actions of others but when people in an honest debate try to link remaining silent and bowing one's head and with being forced to prostrate themselves on the floor shows that they are unwilling to be intellectually honest.
Interesting. I find it hard to believe you would actually even believe what you are say if it was presented in any other context, other than religion.
I do not think it is okay to judge people by the actions of others but when people in an honest debate try to link remaining silent and bowing one's head and with being forced to prostrate themselves on the floor shows that they are unwilling to be intellectually honest.
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MSgt Lowell Skelton
The ability of believers to be oblivious to their own hypocrisy constantly astounds me.
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Suspended Profile
Most military members are conservatives, and most conservatives are religious - so as an atheist you're simply heavily outnumbered. It's one of the myriad reasons I never bring up such topics in a professional setting.
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Same reason why a lot of homosexuals stay in the closet even while it's okay now: the military is a team sport and people want to fit in on the team. If feeling like fitting in means keeping your religious beliefs or sexual preference on the down low, some folks will do it.
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Then don't bow your head. The only people that will see you are the other people not bowing their heads. What type of monkey did you come from, if you mind me asking?
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What I have found out over the years. That most "atheists" are not. They have mislabeled themselves.
Here is the definition of atheist and agnostic:
Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.
My son is agnostic, but only the sense of the refraining from the commitment to any religious doctrine and I have found youth now days are this way, because of laziness to research the different religions in this world.
Here is a list of the 21 major religions in the world:
1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion 394 million
6. Buddhism 376 million
7. Primal indigenous 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'à Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neopaganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000
If you feel your "in the closet" about your religion or like there of a belief system, it is only because you feel it is not part of the norm in society and has nothing to do with anything, but you getting over your fear of being "found out" about not being part of the norm.
I am not saying what is right or what is wrong only you can decide that for yourself and if you let anyone bully you into a belief system, then that is your fault for letting it happen.
Here is the definition of atheist and agnostic:
Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.
My son is agnostic, but only the sense of the refraining from the commitment to any religious doctrine and I have found youth now days are this way, because of laziness to research the different religions in this world.
Here is a list of the 21 major religions in the world:
1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion 394 million
6. Buddhism 376 million
7. Primal indigenous 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'à Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neopaganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000
If you feel your "in the closet" about your religion or like there of a belief system, it is only because you feel it is not part of the norm in society and has nothing to do with anything, but you getting over your fear of being "found out" about not being part of the norm.
I am not saying what is right or what is wrong only you can decide that for yourself and if you let anyone bully you into a belief system, then that is your fault for letting it happen.
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SPC (Join to see)
You were so close. Agnostic and Atheist actually are not on the same scale. Agnostic-Gnostic refers to the belief about the possibility of certainty. Atheist-Theist refers to the belief in a god. So for example, I am an Agnostic-Atheist. I do not believe in any gods, but I also don't think it is possible to be certain about any god.
You can be Agnostic-Theist (the strangest of the bunch), Agnostic-Atheist (most atheists), Gnostic-Theist (most religious people), or Gnostic-Atheist.
It seems like your son is less of an agnostic, and more of an apatheist (someone who just doesn't care about religion).
You can be Agnostic-Theist (the strangest of the bunch), Agnostic-Atheist (most atheists), Gnostic-Theist (most religious people), or Gnostic-Atheist.
It seems like your son is less of an agnostic, and more of an apatheist (someone who just doesn't care about religion).
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I don't bow my head, and I'm Catholic. I have never attacked anyone based on their religion or lack thereof. I don't consider atheists a threat at all. Not sure this is even an issue.
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I am an atheist and have never been forced to participate in any thing religious. If you don't "bow your head" nothing will happen to you. I do feel there is a religious minority and it can feel overwhelming to think there are so many irrational illogical people in the army. But really that is a problem everywhere especially in the United States. However I know they can't be made to see reasonably about it and it actually has no impact on my life to just leave them to their ancient cults and traditions that are fading away, as part of a living history lesson.
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CH (COL) Geoff Bailey
Is it necessary to insult people whose viewpoint differs from yours? How does that communicate respect?
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Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette - Sir, I like to tell a joke...Jews require a quorum of 10 men to pray certain prayers, so if you travel on the streets of NYC and are Jewish, invariably an older Jewish man will try to usher you into a synagogue for prayer.
"I don't believe in organized religion," a young man once said to one of these organizers.
"If we were organized, would I be out here asking you to come in?"
"I don't believe in organized religion," a young man once said to one of these organizers.
"If we were organized, would I be out here asking you to come in?"
SPC (Join to see)
There may be some kind of energy in us all but eventually the earth, all humanity, and finally all energy will be destroyed in the universe and for the rest of time the universe will be dark and devoid of life. There is nothing special or lasting about life or humans. Life is just a weird accident empty of any higher meaning or purpose eradicating any morality or ethics.
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SFC Jeff Stevenson
I find it funny that all who write in are "forced" to participate. Come on, quit the PC answers. We all have had "mandatory Fun" Or the CFC which is not mandatory, but you still do it. Just because its ok to gripe and bitch and complain, doesn't mean that you should. There are a few things that I was told that you should never speak about in large groups, Politics, religion, and I forget the last one. Guess I took it to heart.
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If I didn't feel like praying at a particular time, I didn't bow my head. Seems a pretty reasonable solution to me.
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SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales
I understand what you mean by "knock yourself out". As far as the bowing of the head, at graduations I've been to, it's been required. When I refused they told me just to "pretend" in order to be uniform.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Yeah...no.
I don't subscribe to the pretend. Just like I don't want my right TO pray to be impacted by anyone, neither should your right not to pray be impacted.
I don't subscribe to the pretend. Just like I don't want my right TO pray to be impacted by anyone, neither should your right not to pray be impacted.
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SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales
Well that's my point. I don't want to stop anyone from praying, I just don't want to be part of it.
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Lol, in the closet what alternate planet are you in? Who do you think is leading the charge to have the word Jesus removed. They wanted there own Chaplin. An oxymoron. It's funny they hate believers but are offended when they find someone who believes. If a soldier says that marriage is between a man and a woman, it's an automatic article 15 and you have to attend sensitivity training.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Having something like this pushed on you isn't right; I respect my troops views, always have, although I don't necessarily share them. My views are my own, and I don't push them on people, because it's not what they need. Their own views make them happy. This is a big military, and a big nation; there are a lot of views out there. You're love of Christianity is fine, and encouraged...it keeps you happy, fulfilled and a more focused. However someone else's faith in another does the same thing, just as Atheists love of the pursuit of knowledge. You don't like that the word Jesus is being removed, well Jewish members don't feel comfortable each time they here his name in prayer while they're praying, neither do the Muslim members, and lets not forget the many members of many different religions.
Why is your way the one that has to stay, but theirs can't be supported? I've talked to many of my troops and some have some depression issues through out their career, it's very common actually; especially the very smart ones. I've talked to troops and convinced them to speak to Christian chaplains and they've come back and said they feel a weight lifted off their shoulders; but I've also sent some to Jewish Chaplains and even once a Buddhist Chaplain, they each had weight lifted off their shoulders.
Chaplains are there for your spiritual health, as each one will state. Spiritual health does not necessarily mean a belief in a God; it means YOUR spirit, how YOU are fairing, how strong you are feeling, how resilient you are.
The Chaplain issue? You don't have grounds.
The Jesus being removed issue? If this was a declared Christian country, where only one religion was tolerated...it'd be understandable; but it's not, and I could not be anymore happier that it isn't. There are too many good people in this world of different religions for us to be so narrow minded to only allow one.
Why is your way the one that has to stay, but theirs can't be supported? I've talked to many of my troops and some have some depression issues through out their career, it's very common actually; especially the very smart ones. I've talked to troops and convinced them to speak to Christian chaplains and they've come back and said they feel a weight lifted off their shoulders; but I've also sent some to Jewish Chaplains and even once a Buddhist Chaplain, they each had weight lifted off their shoulders.
Chaplains are there for your spiritual health, as each one will state. Spiritual health does not necessarily mean a belief in a God; it means YOUR spirit, how YOU are fairing, how strong you are feeling, how resilient you are.
The Chaplain issue? You don't have grounds.
The Jesus being removed issue? If this was a declared Christian country, where only one religion was tolerated...it'd be understandable; but it's not, and I could not be anymore happier that it isn't. There are too many good people in this world of different religions for us to be so narrow minded to only allow one.
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