Posted on Jan 19, 2014
Why are so many NCOs afraid to hold Soldiers to the standard?
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As an instructor at an NCOA I am constantly faced with soldiers and NCO's that apparently are not being held to the standard. Things like arms not at least parallel to the ground during the APFT, or ACU tops that don't come down past the bottom of the pocket opening. Hair cuts, nail length, make up, etc.... What are NCOs afraid of?
Standards
NCOs
Duty
APFT
Professionalism
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 43
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pretty simple i think, 1, they themselves got promoted too fast and do not know the standard. 2, they got promoted too fast and do not care about the standard, 3, its hard to enforce the standard and have your Soldiers "like you" so they dont do it. 4, our leaders above us fail to help us enforce discipline through UCMJ and tell us that our packets are insufficient, so when they do it repeatedly why keep trying if its pointless... but mostly i think its a combination of 3 of them, because they got promoted too fast and/ or just dont give a shizzle and would rather have their Soldiers like them so they can go drinking etc.. its rather quite annoying and im glad you posted the question. It will be interesting to see the various answers/ excuses. Ah,, and of course if you dare,, I mean DARE correct the opposite sex, you can only hope that god is on your defense team for the b.s. EO/ SHARP complaint you might get threatened with... I see that alot as well both first hand and second hand.
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SFC (Join to see)
That is why I tell NCOs to know the regs and stay within due bounds so when joe does scream EO they are g2G
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I'm going to answer your question with another question.
Which standards are you talking about? seems like different ranks and commands had different ideas about standards. Leg army was all about uniforms and customs and really mundane paperwork. Airborne Army was all about physical fitness and high motivation and a "All the Way" attitude. Special Forces was all about PT studs who don't talk much and just do your job even when no ones there to help, and never ever argue with seniors and the 18z papa by the way I spent a lot of time at Fort Bragg and a smidget of time at the BRO and a little bit in Korea
uniform? haircut? PC talk? physical fitness? marksmanship? paperwork? customs and courtesies? proficiency at MOS? proficiency at basic tasks?
I remembered most seniors only cared about uniform and grooming (personal appearance) standards much more than they could care about accomplishing the missions and how to keep their Soldiers alive during actual combat
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SFC (Join to see)
You are right, I too have seen the AR 670-CSM variations. I guess I'm just too old school having served for 26 years, I never should have taken that break and just retired years ago.
I've been told I'm not enough of a yes man for this army which is why I am not getting promoted.
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Well, I'm currently stationed on Fort Wainwright where I've been told by SFCs and even a 1SG that if you're giving a soldier on the spot corrective training: "physical conditioning", you have to get down with the soldier and if you refuse, you'll receive an Article 15.
At my previous duty station, Fort Hood, if a soldier needed to be corrected with physical conditioning, there was no problem with it being conducted. It's not that some NCOs are trying to be best friends with the junior soldiers, but it's exactly as SSG Robert Burns said, they're not trying to catch a case or get caught up while trying to enforce the standards.
At my previous duty station, Fort Hood, if a soldier needed to be corrected with physical conditioning, there was no problem with it being conducted. It's not that some NCOs are trying to be best friends with the junior soldiers, but it's exactly as SSG Robert Burns said, they're not trying to catch a case or get caught up while trying to enforce the standards.
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SFC (Join to see)
I for one am against the " physical conditioning" method unless of course they are a PT failure. Paperwork has always worked for me. However as several have mentioned " people are afraid of catching a case". This attitude confuses me because as an NCO if you are enforcing the regulations and are in the right, then you should not fear catching a case you should welcome it as it will teach other soldiers that you are going to hold them to the regs and not turn tail and run when you hear "EO".
On the flip side as I have seen all too often, NCO will enforce regs on some and look the other way on others and it's normally because they are trying to hit it. As I have always told my NCOs, the minute you hit it you have just lost your entire power base. If you turn the blind eye to the regs you have established a new standard. If a soldiers does the "parade pretty" and you fall for it they will always know you are soft.
The majority of cases that I have seen where the NCO lost was because her or she was doing something they shouldn't be doing. You can't sleep with a soldier and then expect them to police call for you come Monday.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you CSM, there should be a little bit of PT involved for minor infractions. The problem nowadays is NCOs are too afraid to make the correction. They just don't have the "Soldier Hard" concept that was instilled in every Soldier from Day 1. We need to bring back Sergeants time and lets todays Army know that NCOs are the backbone and naildrivers.
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1SG Michael Blount
Most Soldiers are slack because (a) they've been taught it's ok and (b) they've gotten over in the past. My job, and the job of any SNCO is to correct both misunderstandings. Being slack is NOT nor will it ever be ok. Getting over in the past just means the Soldier needs to correct that attitude NOW. However, I've found corrective fitness doesn't really do the job. I've gotten down there with Soldiers and found most are as weak in the mind as they are in heart, after having out-pushed most of them. RBIs, however, are another matter. They take far longer, meaning the Soldier needs to take time out to actually type one up AND it gives the Soldier time to reflect on the importance of what s/he did or didn't do. Make the punishment fit the crime.
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SFC (Join to see)
Csm, 1sg I believe it isn't slacking by newer NCO's but it is not as easy as years past to correct soldiers. 1sg and. Sgm. and Sfc. fear of bad ratings or hurting someone's feelings prevents a lot of corrections. and for the Spc promotables out there give it time and when I joined the big army I got into quite a bit of tiffs with higher ranking individuals for enforcing the standard and eventually I just got tired of being beat over the head about doing the right thing so I understand your feeling like your leaders don't lead the way but soon you will understand all the forces at work and you to will be apprehensive. the army as a whole has a lack of discipline but everyone has a different view on how to fix it than you or I and that person is usually your rater
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