Posted on Mar 13, 2015
Why are so many young soldiers leaving the Army?
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In my limited Army experience I have noticed that many soldiers (mostly PFC or SPC) are getting out of the Army or are very unsure about reenlisting. I have also noticed many of the soldiers from that same demographic attempting to receive a medical discharge or are not concerned about being chartered for height and weight or failing their APFT. Is this normal? If not what are or should leaders be doing to fix this problem?
I personally believe that some of these soldiers do not realize all of the benefits that the Army provides for them and, despite some of the less desirable tasks, how good they have it. In many ways they are better taken care of in the Army than they would be in the civilian sector.
I personally believe that some of these soldiers do not realize all of the benefits that the Army provides for them and, despite some of the less desirable tasks, how good they have it. In many ways they are better taken care of in the Army than they would be in the civilian sector.
Retention
Discharge
Civilian Career
ETS/EAS
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 250
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Take a few civilian management classes. People don't quit organizations, people quit leaders. I did five years and got out. My first unit, while full of great people, had some toxic personnel. The first commander spent more time tdy then at the unit followed by A company commander more concerned with promotion and medals than with his soldiers and the ethics and morality of cheat. Karma caught up to him six years later when it was discovered he had two soldiers write one of his papers for the staff college. A few NCOs who didn't understand that the quarterly EO/SHARP classes were not how to guides. (One got kicked out of ANCOC for that). Finally one last NCO who always found a crap assignment for the three Hispanic soldiers in the unit. Mind you we weren't her soldiers, she'd just walk into the platoon areas when our NCOs were gone and detail us out, not tell our squad leaders and leave us with our a$$ hanging out. And if she had CQ on the weekends she'd come to our rooms and force us to take her shift.
After seeing nothing happen to change any of this for two years I had a bad taste in my mouth. My next unit (a detached company) was great, but eight months into it they shut the base down, moved us to San Antonio, and started turning us into a brigade. So far so good, until our first battalion commander was found embezzling funds and that was hushed up, until after I got out at least. And a few more NCOs who never learned the maxim "sometimes better is the enemy of good."
I saw some good people kicked out for what should of been a slap on the wrist, I saw political operators get by with things that should have been court martials.
I didn't quit the army though, I quit the leaders I had.
After seeing nothing happen to change any of this for two years I had a bad taste in my mouth. My next unit (a detached company) was great, but eight months into it they shut the base down, moved us to San Antonio, and started turning us into a brigade. So far so good, until our first battalion commander was found embezzling funds and that was hushed up, until after I got out at least. And a few more NCOs who never learned the maxim "sometimes better is the enemy of good."
I saw some good people kicked out for what should of been a slap on the wrist, I saw political operators get by with things that should have been court martials.
I didn't quit the army though, I quit the leaders I had.
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PFC (Join to see)
You said it best bro.Leaders fuck over so many good soldiers,it gets plain ridiculous
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PFC (Join to see)
Then I seen soldiers that aint worth a damn getting treated like Gold and don't even do nothing at work or come to work half the fucking time.Then there they is the main 1s getting promoted and getting told to go to retention to reenlist and all this shit.But more power to them!Cause I get 70% from the Va since I couldn't reenlist from getting demoted so much from catching write ups over anything that got something negative they can write about it that can get put down on paper.I reenlisted in the reserves and i'm gone stay my ass there until it starts going south.Then that's when im getting out on some straight fuck all that shit
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PFC Andrew "Tommy" M.
I could not wait to get out, I hated the political games the majority of my leaders wanted to play, the Army does a poor job of putting the right people in command positions in my experience. Just because they can go through the training to be a leader does not automatically make them leaders.
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My answer is simple: The military isn't easy and it's not for everyone. If it was, we would have 100% retention. This is nothing new. Maybe some people came in and decided that the lifestyle wasn't for them. Maybe they just joined for the college money or whatever, did a bang-up job while they were in, and got out on a good note. When I have a good Soldier coming up on ETS, I don't badger him about reenlisting as if it's his best option (it may not be) but I tell him that I'm proud of him for what he has done, and to keep his options and his mind open. Shaming Soldiers who ETS is the worst thing leaders can do
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SFC (Join to see)
100% agreed!
As one of my most influential leaders always said, "The longer you stay in the Army, you either drink the Kool-Aid, or become more cynical."
As one of my most influential leaders always said, "The longer you stay in the Army, you either drink the Kool-Aid, or become more cynical."
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SSG Bethany Viglietta
SFC (Join to see) Absolutely! As I debated my transition from the Army, I was badgered by my Leadership at all levels. Then shamed when I decided to depart the Army to attend Nursing School. Even after serving honorably for 10 years, leaders felt that I owed the Army something.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Absolutely. As generation two of three generations of service members, I don't think it's any different now that when my father was in that today with my son. If anything, it's much harder to make a career of the military today than my fathers generation when the basic requirement for retention was all four limbs and not being in the brig at the time. From my experience, there are three decision points in a soldiers life, two for enlisted and one for an officer. The first is to re up after that first enlistment, the second is the decision to re up when you have made E5, and for officers, as someone posted below, its after you make O3 and usually after your command time. The first is just a decision if this is a lifestyle you like, the last two are kind of the decision point of whether this is going to be your career for 20 years or not. I chose to go inactive after thirteen years because of some family issues that seemed insurmountable if I would have stayed at the time, mainly a bunch of school time that would have taken me away from home on top of the regular duty time, which is not one weekend a month and two weeks a year for Officers in the National Guard or Reserves in any unit I've been around. Hindsight being 2020, I look at it as a mistake today, mainly because of 9/11, but I didn't see any other route at the time.
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SGT Rafael Morales
When I finished my enlistment, I went to College and got my degree. College was important to me.
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There are a couple things going here CPT (Join to see), some want a change of pace (my son was in this group after 21 months of deployments out of 4 years) and we are also able to be more selective in who we retain.
It is becoming much more competitive to stay in the Army, just because you want to stay does not mean you will get to stay. As a leader do you want the Soldier that embodies the Warrior Ethos or the one that takes the easy way out when things get tough?
You can already see a huge shift of combat experienced veterans leaving our force, across the formation our Soldiers with no SSI-FWS (combat patch) are becoming more common, and in most cases it is not their fault, those just graduating OSUT & AIT are taking the place of our combat experienced force which is cyclical and expected as this will happen after every major period of combat.
While we atrit ourselves to the right size, you have to lean on the right trainers and mentors to train the platoon and keep the lessons learned alive for those remaining in service.
It is becoming much more competitive to stay in the Army, just because you want to stay does not mean you will get to stay. As a leader do you want the Soldier that embodies the Warrior Ethos or the one that takes the easy way out when things get tough?
You can already see a huge shift of combat experienced veterans leaving our force, across the formation our Soldiers with no SSI-FWS (combat patch) are becoming more common, and in most cases it is not their fault, those just graduating OSUT & AIT are taking the place of our combat experienced force which is cyclical and expected as this will happen after every major period of combat.
While we atrit ourselves to the right size, you have to lean on the right trainers and mentors to train the platoon and keep the lessons learned alive for those remaining in service.
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SSG Nate Fel
Army is selective yet begging for recruits, this has nothing to do with selective , this has to do with downsizing to save money which will lead to implementation of automation . This is not only happening in the military it is happening world wide . There will be less and less of a need for human labor point blank. The move is poltical based on business strategies . The less need for humans the less insurance , pay etc has to be paid out. It is business move. When the time comes again when our numbers are low and we do have the machines online as anticipated we will force to people to come back in.
As far soldiers getting out . Some are realizing that its great serve the country do your part and then leave to bigger betting things. The dinamics of the old stay at job for hundred years in hopes of retirement check has change across the board . Many are realizing that it is not gurenteed anymore as political and economical aspect change therefore it is smart to take the chance now and do something you really love doing . I say service to the country is great but some have been around too long hence the increase in nepotism , people just there for that retirement check without true love of the job are the ones damaging the force.
As far soldiers getting out . Some are realizing that its great serve the country do your part and then leave to bigger betting things. The dinamics of the old stay at job for hundred years in hopes of retirement check has change across the board . Many are realizing that it is not gurenteed anymore as political and economical aspect change therefore it is smart to take the chance now and do something you really love doing . I say service to the country is great but some have been around too long hence the increase in nepotism , people just there for that retirement check without true love of the job are the ones damaging the force.
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SPC (Join to see)
So far, sergeant major, in my short five years I've noticed one thing that really is the overarching reason for most troops giving up on the army, and that's because they feel as if the army has given up on them.
This is not to say that all or most leaders act as such, and once again I've only been in 5 years so my experience is limited. However, every single first line leader I have had the "pleasure" of being under has been a boss and not a leader. They come to a tasking or detail and point at things that need to be done instead of coming out there and showing what needs to be done by setting the example and completing the task with us.
Now just like in any other profession there are great people, okay people and downright awful people that work under, with, or above you and there's no stopping that. Humans will always be that way. However, therein lies the issue. In my short time I've seen awful, lazy, toxic people get ahead in their career because of a good pt score and/or they "brown nose". Usually it's the latter of the two that is done most often. I've seen way too many fantastic NCOs get ignored or put down just because they aren't a "yes wo/man". You can't say yes to absolutely any and every thing that someone above you orders you to do. For the most part these orders are normal, simple, legal orders BUT there are orders that would be redundant, have an unattainable timeline, or even worse be potentially dangerous for the soldiers. These see the orders that you can't be afraid to tell that higher up "with all due respect.....no." (tactfully obviously) The NCOs who I've seen that aren't afraid to do so are the ones that are ignored when it's time to send someone to the board or its time to send someone to school or its time for a new NCOER.
I knew a fantastic soldier who while he was in charge of soldiers as a SPC and as a SGT he did not care about anything other than "the accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of my soldiers". He was the embodiment of the NCO creed to me. However, this is what would be his downfall, because he would refuse to do tasks or assign tasks to his soldiers that would be harmful, impossible, or plain old stupid/useless he then became disliked by his squad leader who would do everything in his power to make everyone above him hate this NCO. This doesn't mean that he was refusing orders left and right. It was an occasional occurrence but it still caused the downfall of his career.
Moral of the story is that soldiers leave because they feel like, I've also seen this often firsthand, they arent being taken care of or they feel like their voices go unheard.
I know for a fact that I would not want to stay in a job where no one appreciates what I do and the leaders take credit for it happening while giving none to myself.
However, this is why I'm staying in, so that I can become the change that I want to see in the army.
Rant over
This is not to say that all or most leaders act as such, and once again I've only been in 5 years so my experience is limited. However, every single first line leader I have had the "pleasure" of being under has been a boss and not a leader. They come to a tasking or detail and point at things that need to be done instead of coming out there and showing what needs to be done by setting the example and completing the task with us.
Now just like in any other profession there are great people, okay people and downright awful people that work under, with, or above you and there's no stopping that. Humans will always be that way. However, therein lies the issue. In my short time I've seen awful, lazy, toxic people get ahead in their career because of a good pt score and/or they "brown nose". Usually it's the latter of the two that is done most often. I've seen way too many fantastic NCOs get ignored or put down just because they aren't a "yes wo/man". You can't say yes to absolutely any and every thing that someone above you orders you to do. For the most part these orders are normal, simple, legal orders BUT there are orders that would be redundant, have an unattainable timeline, or even worse be potentially dangerous for the soldiers. These see the orders that you can't be afraid to tell that higher up "with all due respect.....no." (tactfully obviously) The NCOs who I've seen that aren't afraid to do so are the ones that are ignored when it's time to send someone to the board or its time to send someone to school or its time for a new NCOER.
I knew a fantastic soldier who while he was in charge of soldiers as a SPC and as a SGT he did not care about anything other than "the accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of my soldiers". He was the embodiment of the NCO creed to me. However, this is what would be his downfall, because he would refuse to do tasks or assign tasks to his soldiers that would be harmful, impossible, or plain old stupid/useless he then became disliked by his squad leader who would do everything in his power to make everyone above him hate this NCO. This doesn't mean that he was refusing orders left and right. It was an occasional occurrence but it still caused the downfall of his career.
Moral of the story is that soldiers leave because they feel like, I've also seen this often firsthand, they arent being taken care of or they feel like their voices go unheard.
I know for a fact that I would not want to stay in a job where no one appreciates what I do and the leaders take credit for it happening while giving none to myself.
However, this is why I'm staying in, so that I can become the change that I want to see in the army.
Rant over
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SSG Luis Pena
I retired 5 years ago and part of the reason that I called it quits after 20 was because of exactly what you just said. I disagree with what you said about picking and choosing what orders to follow. The fact is that as long as it's a lawful order, you follow it. If its something dangerous or potentially hazardous to your troops, then it's a leadership challenge to make it as safe as possible while still accomplishing the mission. It is not your job question a lawful order, it's only your job to execute it. But what do agree with is the fact that there is a huge good old boy system in the Army. Good soldiers and leaders get out because they are not part af this system, and duchebags stay in because their buddies are making sure that they move up.
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SGT (Join to see)
CSM Uhlig, I have to vehemently disagree with you. The fact that you would answer the way you did shows just how out of touch the upper enlisted are. I had my unit begging me to reenlist, but I couldn't, in good conscience, do it. The fact that the good ol' boy system still runs rampant in the military caused me to despise every aspect of the military by the end of my second enlistment. Furthermore, I felt it was morally wrong that my crew and I would bust our asses as a skeleton crew to have the second highest OR rate against fully staffed flight facilities just to be called worthless retards by our officers and upper enlisted. By the way, I actively encouraged my troops to find a better unit before the unit made them as bitter and resentful of the military as I had become.
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