Posted on Jan 22, 2015
COL Matt Finley
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Is not vocational education more appropriate for many veterans? Throughout GI Bill history, vocational education seems to have been a 2:1 favorite yet recently it is just the opposite. With the number of college educated unemployed, would certifications serve many veterans better than a degree?
Posted in these groups: Graduation cap EducationImgres Employment
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Responses: 15
CSM David Heidke
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Because Colleges are full of Liberal evangelists who need employment, and where else can you get people to pay to have themselves brainwashed!

The government is fully vested in the pyramid that is college education.

That's why.
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SFC Mark Merino
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I was denied by the VA for Voc Rehab because they said I was not a viable candidate for employment due to my injuries and TBI. Being told that was like telling me that I was permanently broken and unworthy of being fixed. I paid to send myself back to school to finish my degree. If someone comes to you with fire in their belly and a never say die attitude, why try to "help" them by holding them back? Never let someone else define your limitations.
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COL Matt Finley
COL Matt Finley
>1 y
No argument and congrats on your bootstrap effort. Did you not have Post 9/11 GI Bill to help? Also, I am not putting down college (I have 3 degrees), just amazed that it seems to be the only option being given to young soldiers today at the transition point.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
I believe they are biased towards college. In my humble opinion, the smartest thing to try to get these days is the VA peer support training. If that can get paid for, the veteran can get hired as a peer support counselor as a GS-7 instead of waiting for an apprentice slot (GS-5) and having to hold it for a year. It only takes a couple weeks, but out of pocket costs are about $1,500. I believe colleges have a leg up because they know what the VA is willing to pay and when they come in under price, they push that agenda.
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SGT James Hastings
SGT James Hastings
>1 y
As you say, SFC Merino, "fire in the belly" goes a long way in overcoming problems.  On leader in the Civil War, with only one bullet in his pistol, lead the charge "down the hill" toward their enemy who outgunned them and the enemy turned tail and ran and this officer won the battle!  I know that with current weapons the enemy might mow them down or blow them up but I have respect for courage that isn't misplaced.
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SFC Doug Lee
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I think a college 4 year degree is the biggest ponzi scheme ever created and the masses just keep falling for it. It people invested the time and money that it takes to get a degree into starting a business, they could actually become affluent as opposed to going into decades of debt.

I'm sure someone will mention that they need a business degree to start a business. Wrong! I've taken business classes and they were a complete waste of time. They are irrelevant and not real world at all. The goal of colleges is to have you go into tens of thousands and even a hundred thousand dollars in debt and then they consider you a success if you graduate and get a $30,000 a year job. How does that compute to success?
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SFC Doug Lee
SFC Doug Lee
>1 y
That's crazy.
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COL Matt Finley
COL Matt Finley
>1 y
Yes but that is the market and projections say it will stay that way for IT folks for at least a decade. That is why I do not understand why the Services are not pushing more transitioning members into votech
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
SFC Doug Lee , I will go further and state that most business degrees appear to actually be harmful (other than for listing on the resume). They give the individual the false impression that they actually know something that will be relevant when they hit the job market. Unfortunately, they tend to teach what the instructors think is sexy. As a practical matter, this means they prepare you for what they think[1] C-level executives are doing. And, on average, it will be a long time - or never - before the grad gets to that level.

Using me for an example (MS in Management & MBA), I learned all about international trade, running a major unit of an international corporation, the fine points of corporate & employment law, statistical modeling, marketing & advertising theory, etc. I HAVE used much from these classes in my management career. However, what they didn't even address was: Giving feedback, doing performance reviews, time management, meeting behavior, negotiations within the organization, preparing for and surviving re-orgs, hiring, firing, determining who to promote, succession planning, on boarding employees, starting and ending projects, etc. I could literally go on for pages on the important topics that are just never brought up.

The state of business "education" is a joke. Quite honestly, most of my relevant education came from three sources:
1. The Army (you need to translate, but the Army DOES teach relevant leadership & management skills - see also the recent discussion of leader books)
2. Podcasts
3. Prior jobs (mostly due to looking at what those managers did and what didn't work)

[1] While not denigrating the work that goes in to getting a PHD or DBA, it is worth noting that most B-school instructors have been academics for most of their lives. If they have worked in the "real" world, it was most often as a consultant, giving advice & lectures, not in a position where they were actually responsible for actual performance. In spite of what I wrote above, I feel that both of my Master's degrees were above average in professional relevance because the college (UMUC) exclusively used adjunct professors who were also currently engaged in relevant professional activities (my law prof was a practicing corporate lawyer in Houston, my marketing prof ran a marketing firm down south, etc). Based on my discussions with peers, both of online and brick schools, what I got was better than what most of them did.
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SFC Doug Lee
SFC Doug Lee
>1 y
the old saying seems to remain true. The "A" students became the teachers, The "B" became the employees working for the "C" students.
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