Posted on Mar 12, 2019
Why aren't the Specialists considered NCOs? How come an E3 is still called PVT?
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Thank you for responding to my earlier question Now I have two other questions. question 1 why aren't the spec. considered NCOs? If there good enough to make the rank of E4 then why aren't they NCOs? I understand WWII but now? Question 2, How come an E3 is still called PVT. he reached this rank at some point. If you can't call them lance cpl. then why not call all PVTs "soldiers". And make them fell proud to be in that rank.[E3] ? Leave out the ranking? We just said Marine when we wanted someone not PVT. Not trying to change the world just suggesting the change could be good for everyone ?
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 6
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Some E4s are Corporals when they are placed in a leadership position, otherwise they are specialist.
Why does it not make sense for the Army to have 3 Private ranks and the Marines to have 2? All privates in the Army are usually addressed by their names or referred to as Soldiers.
As to if they're good enough - enlisted in the Army are automatically promoted to E4 at their 2 year mark. What separates the E4s is that a corporal is being groomed to be a Sergeant. Being selected for Corporal tells everyone that you are now a leader and NCO, not just an E4.
There's always a debate on whether we should make all E4s Corporals, or if we should bring back all the specialist ranks. Don't forget that the corps almost had its Lance Corporal rank replaced with PFC rank at one time as well.
Why does it not make sense for the Army to have 3 Private ranks and the Marines to have 2? All privates in the Army are usually addressed by their names or referred to as Soldiers.
As to if they're good enough - enlisted in the Army are automatically promoted to E4 at their 2 year mark. What separates the E4s is that a corporal is being groomed to be a Sergeant. Being selected for Corporal tells everyone that you are now a leader and NCO, not just an E4.
There's always a debate on whether we should make all E4s Corporals, or if we should bring back all the specialist ranks. Don't forget that the corps almost had its Lance Corporal rank replaced with PFC rank at one time as well.
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Lord have mercy you are all over the place. You just combined two branches the Army and the Marine Corps rank. In the Corps you do not call a lance corporal a private so I don't know what you are talking about. I was a lance corporal and never once was I called a private until the BC took the rank from me hahahaha. Why aren't specialist considered NCO's because they are not Non-Commissioned Officers simple as that no other explanation needed a Corporal is the most Junior Non commissioned officer in the Army and the Marine Corps. An E-3 in the army is a Private first class, Hence the Private in the front of the first class so still a dang private.
There needs to be no change to the rank structure in the Army or the Marine Corps has worked if anything it would be better for the Army to go back to the full Specialist rank structure because some shouldn't be NCO's.
There needs to be no change to the rank structure in the Army or the Marine Corps has worked if anything it would be better for the Army to go back to the full Specialist rank structure because some shouldn't be NCO's.
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MSG (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay - Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai? That was certainly an interesting movie
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LTC Jason Mackay
LCpl Sandy Moran to,pile on what SFC(P) (Join to see) said. You are starting with the assumption that the Marine Corps is the same as the Army. The force structure is different. While the Infantry Squad is the basic building block everything else is built around it. That is where the services differ. Marines have Platoon Commanders, the Army has Platoon Leaders. The Fire Team, which Army Squads have two and Marines I believe have three. Army Squads have 9 people doctrinally and Marines 12. So the span of control is a,little different.
Army E4s can be NCOs, but it is tied to the position and they must be laterally appointed to E4 Corporal. Corporals also physically take an NCO position on the MTOE/TDA and forfeits the command's authorization for a hard stripe NCO from filling it. It does not mean that an E4 Specialist doesn't lead. It's part of their development if their Squad or section Sergeant is worth their salt. Specialists are specialists in their MOS at that point in their career. They should be able to consistently do the daily tasks and functions with some direction.
Why are E3s still Called Private? Because that is what Table 1-1 AR600-20 says to do. Often in practice, we refer to PFCs as "PFC" especially if they are sharp and competent to let them know we see them as more. Strictly informal practice. Your comment "he reached this rank at some point..." huh? All ranks except E1 are reached at some point through promotion or selection. Not sure what that means to you.
Not that it really compares but Air Force E4s are Senior Airman and used to differentiate between Senior Airman and Sergeant in a similar way to Army Corporals/Specialists with Staff Sergeants as their first hard NCO stripe. They have since dropped it. They are all referred to as Airman, E1-E4.
Not sure what is running behind your comments.
Army E4s can be NCOs, but it is tied to the position and they must be laterally appointed to E4 Corporal. Corporals also physically take an NCO position on the MTOE/TDA and forfeits the command's authorization for a hard stripe NCO from filling it. It does not mean that an E4 Specialist doesn't lead. It's part of their development if their Squad or section Sergeant is worth their salt. Specialists are specialists in their MOS at that point in their career. They should be able to consistently do the daily tasks and functions with some direction.
Why are E3s still Called Private? Because that is what Table 1-1 AR600-20 says to do. Often in practice, we refer to PFCs as "PFC" especially if they are sharp and competent to let them know we see them as more. Strictly informal practice. Your comment "he reached this rank at some point..." huh? All ranks except E1 are reached at some point through promotion or selection. Not sure what that means to you.
Not that it really compares but Air Force E4s are Senior Airman and used to differentiate between Senior Airman and Sergeant in a similar way to Army Corporals/Specialists with Staff Sergeants as their first hard NCO stripe. They have since dropped it. They are all referred to as Airman, E1-E4.
Not sure what is running behind your comments.
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LTC Jason Mackay
MSG (Join to see) - forget the name, he was a hit man who was hired to kill a woman and she ends up seducing him. His eye twitched like 40 times a minute.
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Private is a title of address, not a rank, as General is for BG, MG, LTG, GEN.
E-4s are either a SPC or CPL, with the CPL being an NCO.
Private is not a derogatory title, so I'm not certain how any change is necessary, or good. SGTs, SSGs, SFC, and MSG are all called Sergeant, should we just refer to them as Soldier, instead of their title, also?
Civilian jobs have titles based on position, also. Laborer, lead, foreman, etc. Should those be changed to Worker?
Organizations have titles, it gives people something to strive for, which is good for the individual and the organization.
E-4s are either a SPC or CPL, with the CPL being an NCO.
Private is not a derogatory title, so I'm not certain how any change is necessary, or good. SGTs, SSGs, SFC, and MSG are all called Sergeant, should we just refer to them as Soldier, instead of their title, also?
Civilian jobs have titles based on position, also. Laborer, lead, foreman, etc. Should those be changed to Worker?
Organizations have titles, it gives people something to strive for, which is good for the individual and the organization.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
No I believe that a pvt. etc should be called soidier. because some Pvt,s work hard for the E3 ranking I don't know about E3 promotions in the Army but when I got promoted I had to go in front of a promotion board. And too pass that was something to be proud of. Hench the word Marine sounds better to me then Pvt., That why I feel soldier is not demeaning for Army E3. Pvt sounds like a demotion in rank. That's why I asked.
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1SG (Join to see)
LCpl Sandy Moran Private, is not demeaning, as Sergeant isn't demeaning for a SFC. It's only a title, like Soldier or Trooper. Promotion to PFC and SPC are automatic, unless withheld for a reason. Other than Soldier of the Month/Quarter/Year, the first board is for SGT.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
oh. I didn't know E3&E4[spec] was automatic. I thought their was a board Thanks for the info
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