Posted on Oct 29, 2013
Why do Soldiers not understand that the Army Values apply 100% of the time?
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Why do Soldiers have such a hard time being comfortable with the ideas that 1) the Army values are valuable 100% of the time - on and off duty and 2) a Soldier should act like in a professional manner no matter where he or she should find themselves?
For that matter, why are leaders OK with lapses in integrity or selfless service (for example) if the Soldier in question isn't on base, on duty, or in uniform at the time of the lapse?
Values
Selfless Service
Character
Integrity
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 15
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I think it comes down to the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. What put lots of high standards and expectations on our new soldiers for them only to be surrounded by leadership, senior leadership for that matter in the news about once a week for violating our core values. If we are going to instill these values in our soldiers they have to see it lived through our actions. Sadly they are not. From our top generals, whether it be Patreus having an affair, GEN Ward defrauding the govt through travel vouchers, SFC Sharp reps prostituting women at Ft. Hood, videoing cadets at West Point, Post Commander relieved at Ft. Jackson for adultery, Hospital Commander at Evans Army CH with over 30 sexual harassment complaints, 1SG's and CSMs getting DUIs, etc. We are SURROUNDED by it. So yes, its a hard sell. I've seen a SGT reduced and chaptered out over $50 on a travel voucher at the same time GEN Ward was caught of at least $80,000 that we know of. We call them standards but we don't enforce them as such.
The problem is not the soldiers it is the leaders. I had excellent leaders coming up in the beginning of my career and I did all I could to emulate them. I wanted to be like them. Now, not so much. All we can do now is try to influence those directly under us and hope they get it enough to keep it once they move on.
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SSG Robert Burns
I left this one out too. They can't even make it out of basic training without seeing us fail at the army values. Every week another drill sergeant is getting relieved for something here at Ft. Jackson. What do we expect from them if they can't even make it out of basic pure?
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SSG Robert Burns
That being said we make celebrities out of the negative ones. Just like the news reports the airplane crashes not all the safe landings. When's the last time you saw someone on the cover of the Army Times for doing something good other than winning a medal? We don't do a good enough job promoting our good leaders and making examples out of them. You are quick to hear a commander say when someone messes up "I'm going to make an example out of them." Frankly I believe you are making an example out of the wrong ones. Last I checked, an example is something you are to follow.
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SSG (Join to see)
People almost always remember the negative influences over the positive. I think this is because the negative usually impacts us to a greater degree, especially when you see the negative influences rise through the ranks above their peers who do the right thing all of the time.
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I would argue that as a leader, you can't wholly be good at your job if you have lax morals and values. You must set the example at all times, and at the very moment when you think none of your subordinates are watching you and so you compromise your values, that may be the moment when they're paying the most attention. As a leader, you must live the values of the service at all times, even when no one is looking.
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CMC Robert Young
Sir, you are spot on. I would observe that the two most significant, and most often overlooked leadership (or even just personal) character issues are development of a strong moral compass, and an abiding self awareness that decisions made in light of those core values impact not only the leader but the led. Good post!
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SSgt (Join to see)
I agree to the extent that we were/are never really off-duty. I guess the same goes for most cops. If a cop is seen in public drunk, he loses respect by the community. Any breech amongst cops or in our case, veterans, is a big problem.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
Good leaders will live the Army Values daily. They won't have to be reminded to do what is right by others who find them doing something wrong and against what the Army Values stand for. Unfortunately, we tend to correct many Soldiers daily.
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SFC,
I think the answer to this question comes down to the distinction between "having a job as a soldier" or truly being a part of the Profession of Arms. This concept of being a professional soldier is something that I see in writing, hear in speeches, and talked about in training but rarely do I see it actually lived out in the lives of Jr leaders in the Army. In my experiences, I tend to see this ideal being lived in Sr leadership (Officers and NCOs) that are career soldiers more often than with our Jr leaders. I've spoken about this very subject with leaders in our Army and many contribute this to the fact that we've gotten away from our garrison based ideals and that over a decade of war has brought about a lax attitude in our Jr and some of the newer Sr leadership. Regardless of the reason for this regression, it comes down to leaders at all levels to enforce and instill into our soldiers what it means to be a professional through our own example. I've had leaders in the past that have done just that and I can tell you that it has made an impression on me as a soldier and on the way I view the career I've chosen. If you, as a leader, allow your soldiers to make decisions that bring discredit on themselves and on our profession without repercussions, you are not only hurting the Military but doing that soldier a disservice.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you, sir. I would only add one perspective. The idea that we can focus on professionalism in garrison but are too busy to do so during a time of conflict is a faulty one. I know you didn't pen the idea so I'm not saying your thinking is faulty. I'm only suggesting that we need to put professionalism before everything, including going to war because as Leonidas proved, he took more Soldiers to war than Daxos the Arcadian and that made all the difference.
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CPT (Join to see)
You are 100% correct. That is the problem with mass production in any industry. You almost always have to sacrifice quality for quantity. Now we are having to cut the fat and it's a painful process. Certain standards have been compromised and in many soldiers and leaders, have been the norm for their entire career. As we rediscover being a professional applies when deployed, in garrison, and off duty, there will be growing pains in the form of resentment and rejection from those being forced to change.
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SFC (Join to see)
2LT Brantley, if you haven't picked it up, I highly recommend Execution: The Discipline of Getting Things Done. It is a good book that talks about a lot of things that any leader needs to be good at. The end is particularly germane here as it talks about the personnel evaluation process. Essentially, if we train our first line supervisors in HR principles: picking the right people for the right job, evaluating fairly with an eye toward production, mentorship, etc. we will get where we need to be. You might read it if you haven't.
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SSgt (Join to see)
2nd Lt. Brian B you make some valid points as many of the old guard are leaving but I think because of sequestration and other issues today, soldiers will reacquire that leadership. IMHO
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SFC Tyler,
Many great points in this thread. I would add one more perspective, I think it is the maturity of the Soldier, the examples the leaders set, and the individual's personal set of values (what was taught to them by their parents, if any at all). When I was a recruiter I remember the number one objection I heard was "I don't like being told what to do." I think many Soldiers have to come to the realization that their own set of values can be exercised as well as the Army's Values. We can only achieve this through education (training and annual classes), personal example set by Leaders, and engendering a commitment to the Army's core values.
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SFC (Join to see)
I've heard "I don't like being told what to do" many times. Occasionally, I answer like this. You can either listen to me as I give you a mission (tell you what to do), listen to a civilian employer give you instructions (tell you what to do), listen to a police officer or judge read you your rights (tell you what to do), or listen to a corrections officer tell you it's time for visitation (tell you what to do). Take your pick.
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SSgt (Join to see)
As an Airman, I debated a MSgt about cleaning the seals of a refrigerator, wondering how that matters. As a forecaster and even observer, that attention to detail matters more than we can ever know. I am grateful to MSgt Lewis.
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Have this experience and you will see the value of "Integrity". My family was leaving the local Wal-Mart several years ago and I noticed a small 3 dollar item had not been charged and was in the bottom of the buggy. I picked it up and told my family I would be right back, that I had to go and pay for this item. Both of my children looked at me in astonishment and my wife was a little puzzled, but then she explained to them it was wrong to take the item, no matter how inexpensive. It would be stealing. A valuable lesson was learned by my children, a lesson most are denied.
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CMC Robert Young
Petty Officer Duncan, you hit the nail on the head. How many people do we take into the service these days who come to us with weak morale compasses and a complete lack of self awareness. It's hard for any organization to provide its members the character they need when they lack the basics walking in the door. Good on you for doing the right thing, and for using it as a positive object lesson.
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Is it possible to be a good Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, Marine, Coast Guardsman if you have lax morals/values as long as you're good at your job?
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CMC Robert Young
SFC, my experience is that it is not possible simply because at some point all of the technical proficiency and work ethic in the world not supported by strong core values is doomed to an implosion. One of my former units (a military law enforcement and security command) travelled frequently and as a result members detached received per diem for every day away from home. In five years on station, I lost three of my hardest working, most skillful and knowledgeable fast boat guys to courts martial for cheating the travel reimbursement system. All were exceptional performers on the job, but all lacked a correct moral compass. Good question!
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SSgt (Join to see)
There will come a day when just being good at your job is not enough. Lawrence Taylor is a sex offender. I think he has gotten a pass due to his celebrity, but informally the word is out about him and what he was doing.
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SFC Taylor, Your topic is totally reasonable. Soldiers should live and breath Army values and carry out their personal set and values and norms as long as it is morally and ethically correct. In my words and through my action as an Noncommissioned Officer I drill army values into my soldiers on a daily basis, and I follow army values even when they are not looking.
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SFC (Join to see)
How do you encourage them to do the same? What do you say is their incentive to live as you do?
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SFC Tyler, I encourage my soldiers to live and breathe Army values by positive encouragement and reinforcement by getting to know them professionally and personally as a team. As a result of strengthening our team bond, doing the right thing will hopefully be natural to my soldiers. I hop my answer provides insight to my first comment. Thank you for taking time to respond.
V/R SGT Maritn
V/R SGT Maritn
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SFC Marcus T., I agree and I believe sometimes even the best may have a lapse in responsibility. That said, we should ALWAYS STRIVE to be professional 24hrs a day. I remember at Little Rock, A SSgt came into the day room and started cussing everyone out because someone took his truck and rolled it.
I was also a SSgt and admonished him verbally for fraternizing and being drunk and out of control. As NCOs we may be faced with something and challenging and the last thng we need is for leaders to act like fools. The public sees this as well and we are all judged accordingly.
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The Army is not alone in this arena. The Coast Guard continues to experience its share of embarrassments for failure to adhere to service core values. It's everything from CC (Coast Guard Drill Sergeants) being relieved for sexual or abusive actions towards recruits to OICs/COs involved in inappropriate relationships with civilian service providers. The thing I find most disturbing is that the majority of the higher profile events are not our E1-E3s. It's people who have been in the service long enough to know better, and to have seen others run afoul of the system.
The most significant problem is the long term impact on morale and performance. If new recruits and junior members see their seniors behaving in a manner which doesn't espouse core values, how can we expect them to behave any differently as they progress through their careers. The problem feeds itself because we don't require all members to live the warrior ethos daily in all circumstances.
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So, in reading these responses I am reminded of another couple of questions. Is it OK to ask a Soldier to "check his or her values and beliefs at the door" and adopt the Army Values (in the case of Soldiers)? If so, is that reasonable and what should a Soldier do when his or her individual beliefs differ, which one "wins?"
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SGT Scott Bailey
SFC Tyler
In my opinion, just mine, You will never have to check your faith at the door. Your faith will help you incorporate Army Values into your life. With faith, all is possible. Great, thought provoking question.
In my opinion, just mine, You will never have to check your faith at the door. Your faith will help you incorporate Army Values into your life. With faith, all is possible. Great, thought provoking question.
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SFC (Join to see)
What should a service member do if their personal values differ from their service's values?
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