Posted on Dec 6, 2016
Why do we still train Middle Eastern Officers. Especially after the AWOLs over the past years.
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Officers
Middle East
Fort Moore
Unauthorized Absence
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 12
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Because it is necessary....because the majority do return back to their country...and because they had to go through multiple layers of background checks and screening before they were even accepted in the first place.
The thing you have to understand is that the Iraqi army and the Afghan army as they exist now do not have the established background that the US military has. They do not yet have a culture of professionally trained soldiers who were raised, mentored, and trained by their country's own professionally raised, mentored and trained soldiers. The reason we bring them to the US is to expose them to that culture. Yes, some go AWOL, most return. The ones who go AWOL are not a threat to the US and you would know this if you ever had knowledge of the insane process it takes to recommend foreign soldier to attend a course in the US. Afghanistan and Iraq sucks, it sucks so bad that some of their best officers and NCOs would rather wash dishes in their cousin's best friend's aunt's restaurant than go back to Iraq or Afghanistan.
The payoff in the end is still worth way more than a few individuals going AWOL.
The thing you have to understand is that the Iraqi army and the Afghan army as they exist now do not have the established background that the US military has. They do not yet have a culture of professionally trained soldiers who were raised, mentored, and trained by their country's own professionally raised, mentored and trained soldiers. The reason we bring them to the US is to expose them to that culture. Yes, some go AWOL, most return. The ones who go AWOL are not a threat to the US and you would know this if you ever had knowledge of the insane process it takes to recommend foreign soldier to attend a course in the US. Afghanistan and Iraq sucks, it sucks so bad that some of their best officers and NCOs would rather wash dishes in their cousin's best friend's aunt's restaurant than go back to Iraq or Afghanistan.
The payoff in the end is still worth way more than a few individuals going AWOL.
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SSG (Join to see)
I totally agree with you and the post isnt directed in a negative manner. It was the tooic of a discussion out here and I posted it here. There is a lot more knowledgable people that could answer it such as yourself. Half the cadre that train IMSOs probably dont know the process they go thru. Or how long it takes.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - No, it is a good question...and it is one where the real answer gets buried in paranoia. If you want to educate your peers, start by talking about US foreign aid to a country. When the US gives X dollars to a country, part of that can sometimes include slots to US military schools. Attending training in the US is important for a lot of reasons. First, many of the countries we offer slots to are trying to break the habit of the old Soviet system where NCOs play a far lesser role.
Second, we want these guys to see America. This is part of the cultural diplomatic exchange process that the State Department loves. By exposing them to America and its culture, we no longer are these random military foreigners. We are people who share certain common moral values and ideas, yet have distinct cultural values.
Lastly, the best way to learn the American style of military operations is to be immersed in the US military. We have unique way of doings things, and it is something that even our allies recognize. Ever wonder why we have British paratroopers acting as Platoon Sergeants in the 82d? It is because they are trying to learn our system of planning and leadership, which makes interoperability on the international level easier.
Second, we want these guys to see America. This is part of the cultural diplomatic exchange process that the State Department loves. By exposing them to America and its culture, we no longer are these random military foreigners. We are people who share certain common moral values and ideas, yet have distinct cultural values.
Lastly, the best way to learn the American style of military operations is to be immersed in the US military. We have unique way of doings things, and it is something that even our allies recognize. Ever wonder why we have British paratroopers acting as Platoon Sergeants in the 82d? It is because they are trying to learn our system of planning and leadership, which makes interoperability on the international level easier.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
SFC (Join to see) - just prior to leaving the 'Defense Cooperation' world seven years ago, the big item was ensuring foreign military students bringing their family with them to the US had pregnancy insurance. Most other nations pay their members so little, they would qualify for Medicaid here; California (as an example) didn't question citizenship, so all these guys would have kids paid for by the taxpayers and take a U.S. citizen back home with them.
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SFC (Join to see)
CDR Jon Corrigan - This highlights the depth of thought that goes on behind the scenes with these exchange programs, and I am glad you shed a bit of light on it.
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This is an old story....older than the Afghan war. The Foriegn Student detachments used to have special training for those requesting asylum, those going AWOL, what to do if they flunk out, etc. I was an escort officer for a late 90s Partnership for Peace exercise (former communist countries) and got similar training. Before it was Afghans, it was Officers and NCOs from Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Kuwait, various countries in Africa, and newer allies in Eastern Europe. Before that it was Japanese and German Officers along with our NATO counterparts. There is always someone who goes over the wall, even with many who have much better prospects than an Afghan Officer, who may be going back to certain death. How does this little streak of seven compare to the total number here Training? They leave that out of most articles.
The alternative to having these Officers/NCOs coming here, seeing what is possible in Murica if they make it happen, and taking that back to their country (part of their curriculum is designed purposely to do just that) or is to it better to try and have all our school house infrastructure deploy there? We wanted to reduce risks to our ETTs, so we moved allied officers here to train. We want to get out of there someday, right? Only way that gets done if they gitty up and make it happen there. If a couple go over the wall, meh.
Afghans are Central Asian and not middle eastern. This story is from September. Why is this a thing now? What evidence has there been that anything bad has happened or is about to happen with regard to these guys? We have thousands of expired student visa peeps that just disappear into America every year. No Foxnews level outrage. They are actually from hostile countries like China and Iran. My spidey senses are that these guys are hiding out somewhere, driving a cab or working somewhere off the grid to scratch out a living.
The alternative to having these Officers/NCOs coming here, seeing what is possible in Murica if they make it happen, and taking that back to their country (part of their curriculum is designed purposely to do just that) or is to it better to try and have all our school house infrastructure deploy there? We wanted to reduce risks to our ETTs, so we moved allied officers here to train. We want to get out of there someday, right? Only way that gets done if they gitty up and make it happen there. If a couple go over the wall, meh.
Afghans are Central Asian and not middle eastern. This story is from September. Why is this a thing now? What evidence has there been that anything bad has happened or is about to happen with regard to these guys? We have thousands of expired student visa peeps that just disappear into America every year. No Foxnews level outrage. They are actually from hostile countries like China and Iran. My spidey senses are that these guys are hiding out somewhere, driving a cab or working somewhere off the grid to scratch out a living.
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LTC (Join to see)
Thank you sir, for giving some context to this with the many who have come to us in the past going back to the end of World War II.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC (Join to see) - there was a time where you could not let a Foriegn officer flunk, one returning officer was executed upon his return home for embarrassing his government
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LTC (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay - sorry, I went to military police officer basic in 1996. We have 3 foreign officers. Two were from Saudi Arabia Army National Guard. They were sort of worthless and out of shape. We had one first lieutenant from El Salvador. He was different. Very professional. I was assigned to him since I speak fluent Spanish and my mother is from Honduras. The Salvadorian officer did well since was a veteran of the Salvadoran Civil War. When we had all night Ops he was in The tactical operations center. He did not doze off like most others did. The M16 shooting reminded him the Salvadoran Civil War and I think maybe he had some minor PTSD because he was excited and fully alert. He killed the opfor who tried to sneak into the TOC. I recall what you just mentioned about not being able to fail the foreign officer.
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LTC (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay - sir correction I went to officer basic course in the spring of 1997. One of the last classes at Fort McClellan Alabama. The Salvador in the tenant was excited about the m - 60 the pig machine gun. Not the M16. I'm using my voice text.
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In the Old Days they Were Well Vetted And We knew they Would Go Back And Do Well and Work Well With US And Allied Forces...
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