Why does the Army appear to have a discipline issue with the lower enlisted ranks?

I’ve seen E-8s and above have discipline issues as well not SFCs and below only difference upper echelon and Senior Ncos so called standard bearers have more accessibility to cover up their faults. The standards come from the top so if they aren’t making effective changes holding standards it trickles down to the lowest level

The problem is NCOs not doing their jobs and a chain of command not doing anything to fix the NCOs or back NCOs when they try to discipline soldiers. The really sad thing is the Army will promote these problem soldiers to NCOs and the problem just continues.

The issue isn't only with the lower enlisted. he issue is ARMY wide, from the top down.

2005 FLARNG 164th ADA, annual training at Ft Stewart GA. I was a (VERY) salty SPC. (6 years prior service USMC, 19 year break in service, 14 years law enforcement as a road deputy sheriff) I was put in charge of a few tasks to be completed out in the field operations specifically the TOC. I had a PV1 and a PV2 literally tell me NO, they didn't want to do that. Too bad!!! I tried explaining to them beforehand why they need to follow orders, we're not friends, buddies or pal's, we are soldiers doing soldier shit! I chewed them out until they thought I was going to beat them. When I finished they both went straight to a Lt Col which was near by and heard most of the exchange and complained, The light Bird called me over while playing dumb and asked me what the issue was, after stating my apologies for the two PVT's not following the chain of command I explained the issue. I believe the Lt. Col just wanted to see if I was speaking truthfully. The Light Bird acknowledged my apology and proceeded to light-up the PVT's [The Lt Col was prior enlisted, Army Special Forces].. A few days later I got my ass chewed by a couple E-'7's [later found out the E-7's were banging both PVT's] The Lt Col had seen this but said nothing at the time.

A few more days later we were in morning formation and given instruction's that upon leaving the Mess Trailer we were to grab 2 MRE's each for our mid day and evening rations. Come mid day meal I went to find some shade and I saw a PVT looking around at everyone with their MRE's. The PVT seemed confused so I approached him and asked what the problem was,. The PVT stated he was wondering where everyone got their MRE's. I said, did you not listen in formation this morning. He informed me that he had been on an early morning detail and wasn't in formation. He said he never got to eat breakfast either. I was dumbfounded that his platoon leader hadn't procured any food for this young PVT. I walked him over to the mess trailer to attempt to help him get a couple MRE's. The mess trailer detail was of zero assistance from the E-8 down. I then handed the PVT my MRE and told him to let me have anything he didn't want. I wound up with crackers.

Now remember the two E-7's that were banging the two young PVT's from earlier, Well they watched me give the PVT my MRE. NEITHER heard our conversation nor did they know why the PVT didn't have any MRE's all these 2 doucheknuckles knew was here is a PVT with no food and now I gave my food to him so NOW I have no mid day meal. These two fools proceeded to light me up once again. I stood there and took the ass chewing, verbal assaults, name calling and all round belligerence. When they seemed to be finishing up, here come the Lt. Col who apparently had seen what I was doing for the PVT and had actually heard part of the conversation. I locked up, the two E-7's stood there all cocky until the Lt Col. made them lock it up while telling me to relax. The Lt. Col had me explain to the two douchnozzles WHY I was giving up my MRE and that the PVT was away prior to to formation so he never got the instructions to grab two MRE's AND that he never got breakfast. I further explained that the VERY FIRST thing any Marine NCO is taught, TAKE CARE OF YOUR TROOPS! That is why I gave up my food to the PVT. The Lt Col dismissed me and the PVT. As we walked away I heard two E-7's getting a serious verbal reprimand. Both wound up with official sanctions in their records. As for me, I wound up with a little green and white ribbon and a piece of paper to wipe my ass with but more importantly, I also wound up gaining more respect from the junior enlisted and officers...

My point is, it's NOT just the junior enlisted with the attitude and discipline problems.

I'm afraid thats characteristic of society in general Garbage in garbage out !!!

If there is a discipline problem with any grade it is due to the Senior NCO and Officers. If they do not exercise their command powers a should be there will be a problem with the troops below them.

I noticed the same thing too , I figured it's because some of these soldiers are young . I'm 37 and only started 3 years ago, the reason why I joined , long story short , child support is a sonava bish , I thought maybe its because lack of bad life experiences, because to me , despite the things I put up with the army , is still better than putting up with BS in the civilian world. The army is actually better, should've enlisted forever ago , better late than never i guess.

This is something during my time I saw on a continuous basis. Not called for and I did not put up with it. When I was a young enlisted man in the Navy, I saw some of it and was really put out by it, my second and third tour of duty was as a Corpsman with the Marine Corps. I'm telling you, day one with the Corps, I learned there was a big separation between E-1 to E-2 to E-3 and beyond. You called no one by their first name unless you were the same rank or the other lower in rank to you. Discipline was everything there and stuff got done faster, better, and more of it because we just did it, didn't talk back and wanted to get it done and get on to other things. Later, when commissioned and I was an OIC I would witness how some younger enlisted sailors were addressing higher ranking, Chiefs even. I pulled the Chiefs aside and said, they were to take care of it or we would all be talking about it at 3:00 a.m. in the conference room. That happened twice, people didn't like it and discipline got better. I leaned on my senior enlisted leaders to change the culture, and they did. I really believe the younger enlisted appreciated the discipline, knew where they stood at all times and were well recognized for their military demeanor. Don't ever give in on discipline, get on it, in an operational or wartime scenario, it may save someones life.

capt wilford: the military forces create their own leaders, enlisted and officer. few persons entering military service are blessed with military leadership knowledge, understanding, and application when compared to those leaders who were taught military protocol, leadership fundamentals, and hierarchy. boot camp actually did little to teach me leadership, but did a lot to show me how to follow orders. big difference there. as i moved around to three different military branches, rising through the enlisted ranks i saw many examples of enlisted and officer leadership, but i'll say this: what they all had in common was respect for the chain of command. having served in viet nam gulf of tonkin in the 60's, and 20years later as a reservist in the marines and the army i saw a generational alteration in military discipline. one petty officer friend of mine, he was active duty on a nuc carrier, said there was this thing called a "card". if a sailor felt or believed he/she was being stressed (whatever the etiology) they could apply the card to the situation and it would relieve them of facing the issue, or something like that. i really dont know first hand about that but it is what i remember being told in early part of the 20's. i was retired in 2004.

i believe now that boot camp needs to be disciplined from day one. raise the standard, not lower it. recruits believe it because they see it on television, they dont know any better. but discipline needs to be mixed with leadership principles, not just in the classroom dogma, but shown what leadership is through cited example. my own military examples of leaders was based more on chain of command. if you had the badge you wore it. if you didnt you followed it. that simple. a couple of recruits in my boot unit were sent home for lack of discipline. for inability to accept orders. maybe these days the standard for getting in is lowered, and the means of staying in is lower still. in any case a great divide exists between officers and enlisted, and even within the enlisted ranks there seems to be a civilian like approach to everything military. a leader raises up, not pummels down. a leader empathizes but gets the message across. a leader shows the way not just hands you a map and walks off. maybe to sum it up, a leader gets his hands dirty, but doesnt let the dirt stay under his fingernails.

PS: for me the whole military went to shit when women were integrated into the most personal close contact situations. can a woman make a good fighter pilot, yes. can she carry, drag or cover a 200 pound wounded male from the enemy in a fire fight - maybe, maybe not. i wouldnt want my life to be the one to bring out the answer.

praise be to god and country. gerald

The ARMY needs to get back to the time before it became a Boy Scout Camp. I went to Basic in 1968.
That was the REAL ARMY. Discipline was #1 seams that today no one cares ! I say go back to the Draft. Start over again make it REAL!!! Not a Game. I Retired it 1989 and can say that I'm a PROUD Vietnam Veteran.

We have a group of leaders that grew up in combat and are great combat leaders, but do not know how to lead in garrison, which is just as important. I understand they are tired (been there, done that) and want to spend time with their families, but Soldiers still need their leadership when the combat mission is over and the garrison mission begins. Stop texting your leadership decisions, put your phones down and lead.