Posted on Sep 6, 2015
Why Does the Army Treat its Reservists and National Guard Soldiers Like Second Class Citizens?
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I've spent 37 years in the Army, in both the active and reserve components. Most of my career has been in the reserves. Regardless, I've consistently seen different "rules" and regs applied not to mention the never ending attitude on deployments that reservists and guardsmen are inferior to active component Soldiers.The active component gets promoted faster, has priority at required schools and typically treats reservists/guardsmen like second class Soldiers on deployments. I can give dozens of examples if needed but I'll save it for now. Bottom line is the Reserves/Guard constitute the bulk of the Army - the Army needs the Reserve/Guard and can't do without them so treat them as equals and not second class Soldiers. Give them the same opportunities for promotion and schools. And especially to the active component, quit assuming we are "inferior" Soldiers during deployments. We often outperform active duty Soldiers plus we bring a multitude of other skills to the table - we are cops, engineers, CEO's, nurses and so on. Let's make everything equitable.
Just to clarify, not all AC elements are like this, nor are all RC/NG elements "top shelf." This issue is a problem that has been around since when I joined the Army in 1978 - I'm sure it goes back even further. This post is about fixing attitudes, ending stereotypes and providing equal educational opportunities to RC/NG Soldiers that AC Soldiers enjoy.
Just to clarify, not all AC elements are like this, nor are all RC/NG elements "top shelf." This issue is a problem that has been around since when I joined the Army in 1978 - I'm sure it goes back even further. This post is about fixing attitudes, ending stereotypes and providing equal educational opportunities to RC/NG Soldiers that AC Soldiers enjoy.
Posted in these groups: 
Army Reserve
Army National Guard
Army Reserve Army National Guard
Edited 10 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 71
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Short Answer: Math
Pretty straightforward answer on this one. Let's approach this mathematically.
Active duty Soldier: 365 days a year.
Reserve Soldier: 62 days a year (48 MUTA +12 ECT).
Now, we'll use your 37 years as an example. We'll pretend it's all Reserve time for simplicity.
RESERVE: 37 years x 62 actual Army days a year: 2,294 total served days. Divided by 365 actual days in a year: 6.28 years. So in 37 years of Reserve Time, a Soldier will do 6.28 years of actual Army Time.
His Active Duty counterpart with 37 years will do 37 years of actual Army time.
An Active Duty Soldier with 6.28 years is generally a low ranking officer or junior NCO. So a Reserve Officer, NCO, Warrant, etc... with 37 years has as much actual Army time as an Active E-5/6 or junior CPT.
Now this doesn't include prior service or deployment mobilizations, but it paints the picture for the disparity.
Pretty straightforward answer on this one. Let's approach this mathematically.
Active duty Soldier: 365 days a year.
Reserve Soldier: 62 days a year (48 MUTA +12 ECT).
Now, we'll use your 37 years as an example. We'll pretend it's all Reserve time for simplicity.
RESERVE: 37 years x 62 actual Army days a year: 2,294 total served days. Divided by 365 actual days in a year: 6.28 years. So in 37 years of Reserve Time, a Soldier will do 6.28 years of actual Army Time.
His Active Duty counterpart with 37 years will do 37 years of actual Army time.
An Active Duty Soldier with 6.28 years is generally a low ranking officer or junior NCO. So a Reserve Officer, NCO, Warrant, etc... with 37 years has as much actual Army time as an Active E-5/6 or junior CPT.
Now this doesn't include prior service or deployment mobilizations, but it paints the picture for the disparity.
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CPT (Join to see)
It easy to see we may not spend the same amount of time in uniform. But you don’t have a clue what goes into being in the Guard then.
All the training is the same all the way around.
Every rank still requires the same amount of training that goes into each promotion. The dedication that is needed by those who want to still wear the uniform while maintaining a life outside of uniform says even more. It would be all too easy to hang up the boots at 20 yrs and say you did your 20 and move on. But for someone to do 37 yrs of service when they hold a while other life with another career is extraordinary. I could hardly imagine telling an active duty SM he couldn’t take off weekends BC he had to work his other job and use all of his vacation time every year to do a second job. I wonder how many SM would volunteer to do that for 37 yrs. Not many I could tell you that!
There are Orders that have to be written between drill weekends, conference calls, NCOERs, OERs, and many other administrative items that take up so much time between drill weekends that you have no clue about.
I’ve been on active duty and a lot of time is spent doing things the reserve and guard components get done in a quarter of the time it takes the active component.
All the training is the same all the way around.
Every rank still requires the same amount of training that goes into each promotion. The dedication that is needed by those who want to still wear the uniform while maintaining a life outside of uniform says even more. It would be all too easy to hang up the boots at 20 yrs and say you did your 20 and move on. But for someone to do 37 yrs of service when they hold a while other life with another career is extraordinary. I could hardly imagine telling an active duty SM he couldn’t take off weekends BC he had to work his other job and use all of his vacation time every year to do a second job. I wonder how many SM would volunteer to do that for 37 yrs. Not many I could tell you that!
There are Orders that have to be written between drill weekends, conference calls, NCOERs, OERs, and many other administrative items that take up so much time between drill weekends that you have no clue about.
I’ve been on active duty and a lot of time is spent doing things the reserve and guard components get done in a quarter of the time it takes the active component.
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You know the interesting thing about this is the fact that my peers that Commissioned into the AC actually are the ones reaching out to me for job opportunities in the civilian sector.
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While at an NCOES course, a have a fellow NCO start slamming the benefits we get in the guard when deployed.
I asked him what is his second job, how much does his house cost, gym membership, medical insurance and so on.
I ask him how much money does loose and how much does it cost him to drive to his unit.
The final thing is I pay more in taxes then I make in the guard so come kiss my ass for the taxes I pay that pay your benefits and pay.
Later I was helping him with 50 cal and he said I can't believe how much I have learned from guard guys.
I told him most of were active at one time.
Nice kid
I asked him what is his second job, how much does his house cost, gym membership, medical insurance and so on.
I ask him how much money does loose and how much does it cost him to drive to his unit.
The final thing is I pay more in taxes then I make in the guard so come kiss my ass for the taxes I pay that pay your benefits and pay.
Later I was helping him with 50 cal and he said I can't believe how much I have learned from guard guys.
I told him most of were active at one time.
Nice kid
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
A lot of reservists and guardsmen take a pay cut when going on active duty but we're not in it for the money are we?! I know what you mean but it sounds like it was a good ending. I've seen many active duty soldiers surprised at what we bring to the table - carpenters, electricians, paramedics, IT, cops, engineers, and so on.
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SSG (Join to see)
CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) very true, I don't do it for the money , i love it and it will be hard when i hang it up.
Yes it's very true about what we bring to the table with our civilian job. I have been a truck driver on the civilian side for 27 year so they made me the driver trainer, gun collector = armored. In my platoon I have cop. Paramedics, firefighters. A nurse, a mix of different active duty experiences and the CO is a lawyer.
I was out from 95 to 07, I also was able to being the old school Reagan era with me, also life experiences.
Yes it's very true about what we bring to the table with our civilian job. I have been a truck driver on the civilian side for 27 year so they made me the driver trainer, gun collector = armored. In my platoon I have cop. Paramedics, firefighters. A nurse, a mix of different active duty experiences and the CO is a lawyer.
I was out from 95 to 07, I also was able to being the old school Reagan era with me, also life experiences.
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I agree wholeheartedly! The reserve components deserve the respect and gratitude of their AD counterparts. I have 15 years with 4 years AD. The difference in benefits is astounding especially when it comes to permissive TDY at the end of an AD period! Why does the active component soldier need MORE time than the reserve soldier to get their affairs in order to go back to a sometimes non-existent job!!! They need us and should act like it.
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MSG (Join to see)
Sorry, but I'm actually confused by your comment. Reserve component Soldiers get time based on the number of days they were on Orders. And if you're going back to a, as you put it, "non-existent job" it seems as if your time would be unlimited.
Please clarify!
Please clarify!
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SFC (Join to see)
We are "supposed" to get PTDY, especially after two years orders, but in my case and others we we "not allowed" because we were not active component! Going against regulation our BN Commander used his position to bully the transition office! Even went so far as to amend my orders and Dd214 to take those 10 days away! Yes, it takes a long time to get a job. Have you been out there?? I have a degree and experience and I JUST got a job 9 months later. The reserve component has to move and relocate just like the active component. Do you think we mobilize on orders down the street from our homes. ( assuming you are not married to an active duty spouse- like in my case you don't have a home)
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2/3 of my MOS is RC (FACT). The overwhelming majority of the ones I've worked with knew their jobs. RC Soldiers often know their jobs extraordinarily well, especially when their civilian job overlaps their CMF.
That said, it is the "profession of arms", and there are certain elements of it that require full time commitment to master. Or to even be proficient at.
If called upon to execute a Joint Forcible Entry, you would call upon the 82nd (All the way!) and not the 29th ID (Let's go!). I am a proud alumni of both.
Now for the multiple deployments to Bosnia at the turn of the century (that seems odd to say, huh?), I believe that the Soldiers of the 29th were ideally suited to that role, and continue to be well-suited for lower-intensity conflicts than many if not all of our AC formations.
Within my CMF, we did our RC brethren a grievous disservice when we severed ourselves from their acquaintance and handed all of their training and equipping to USARC, which also made what used to be second-nature: training with each other, common schools etc..., a much more difficult process. And as I mentioned before, with 2/3 of our mass in the RC, we separated ourselves from roughly 2/3 of our organizational knowledge. Dumb move.
Look at it this way: most AC Soldiers will spend more time training with NATO partners than our own RC. It's no wonder the RC seems foreign to them.
That said, it is the "profession of arms", and there are certain elements of it that require full time commitment to master. Or to even be proficient at.
If called upon to execute a Joint Forcible Entry, you would call upon the 82nd (All the way!) and not the 29th ID (Let's go!). I am a proud alumni of both.
Now for the multiple deployments to Bosnia at the turn of the century (that seems odd to say, huh?), I believe that the Soldiers of the 29th were ideally suited to that role, and continue to be well-suited for lower-intensity conflicts than many if not all of our AC formations.
Within my CMF, we did our RC brethren a grievous disservice when we severed ourselves from their acquaintance and handed all of their training and equipping to USARC, which also made what used to be second-nature: training with each other, common schools etc..., a much more difficult process. And as I mentioned before, with 2/3 of our mass in the RC, we separated ourselves from roughly 2/3 of our organizational knowledge. Dumb move.
Look at it this way: most AC Soldiers will spend more time training with NATO partners than our own RC. It's no wonder the RC seems foreign to them.
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I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that since they are stuck on a base this automatically makes them feel like they are giving more to their country. I know plenty of reserve/National Guard units that have some pretty high speed drills leading up to a deployment. This also includes spending almost a month at NTC and spending a majority of each month leading up to a deployment training and going to schools. But like you said, not all active units are like this, just some. But the same can be made about many infantry units in any component that look down on support MOS's . It's a vicious cycle anyway which way you put it. More so than other branches, the army as a whole is a big ego contest sometimes.
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Because historically the Guard and Reserves has earned its reputation. General Officers with in many states are chosen by the Governor, the state legislature, or in one State Publically elected, another State has given a State Adjutant General a Third Star he can wear in the state, but was only federally recognized as a two star. Misappropriations of funds, how many states have a Taj Mahal somewhere in their state where funds were siphoned off from training areas to fund some pet project? How many National Guard or Reserve Units have gone somewhere and pulled a major bone head issue?
I was active for 10 years in Field Artillery, I saw combat arms NG units that were not up to snuff. These were units with lineage that went back to the 13 colonies, and were jacked up. Granted that was the 1980's.
What changed my mind was working Automotive maintenance. I got to see an area where reservists/guardsmen walk all over the RA. In recent years I have watched the RA look down their noses, yet the Guard reserve often times make them look slow at things we weekenders do as a full time job.
I was active for 10 years in Field Artillery, I saw combat arms NG units that were not up to snuff. These were units with lineage that went back to the 13 colonies, and were jacked up. Granted that was the 1980's.
What changed my mind was working Automotive maintenance. I got to see an area where reservists/guardsmen walk all over the RA. In recent years I have watched the RA look down their noses, yet the Guard reserve often times make them look slow at things we weekenders do as a full time job.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
Your response seems to be directed at the NG. The Reserves do not operate like the Guard, nor are they organized as you described. Frankly, it has been active component elements that have historically made headline news with "bonehead" stunts. I'm not going to initiate a mudslinging contest here as everybody has made mistakes. I too saw jacked up NG units in the 80’s when I was on active duty – I also spent time in a jacked up active duty unit in the 24th ID in the early 80’s. Bottom line: That was then, this is now. I’m not reflecting on what was, my initial post was directed at how things are now. As much as the NG and Reserves have contributed and done a great job they are still looked down on as the “JV” team. It’s not as bad as it used to be but it’s still there.
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SSG (Join to see)
I must agree, the reserves gets little funding if any especially when the purse strings start to tighten. I will say that the reservist called up to Ft. Jackson far exceeded the their active component brothers. Most of the active guys used that posting as a vacation lay over. Our active 1st Sgt and commander were very appreciative of the reserve soldiers assigned to them.
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I can tackle this one. I'll tell you why, it is because you are cops, engineers, CEOs, nurses and so on. All of that has nothing to do with being say an Infantryman, or a Tanker, or a whatever. The greatest asset of a Reservist or a National Guardsman is not their duty MOS, it is what they do in their civilian life. The active duty don't realize this and the Reservists/National Guardsman often fails to capitalize on this. When you do something part time, it is hard to justify the image that you are just as good as someone who does it full time. However, when you take a step back and realize that your civilian credentials, in combination with your military experience, are what make you valuable and you sell that to active duty commanders then you become an asset. Own what you are and stop being a victim.
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SPC (Join to see)
CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) - You do bring up a good point there. The only reason why there was a reversal in attitude was that the USAF officer found out the "civilian" was a USMC Reservist. But why did that even come up? The USMC Reservist, was he there as a civilian...or was he there as a "uniformed" service member. I only added the quotes because those weirdos usually spend all their time in civilian clothes even in active duty component. The fact that he himself was a LTC was what broke the ice between the two. However, does that really say anything about what he does for his "real" job? I mean, if he was a detective back home he is extremely valuable. If he spends his "civilian" time as a construction foreman then not so much.
I mean I can understand your point, it is all about how well you do your military job. I guess I am looking at it from the point of view where the civilian job of Reservists/National Guardsman is what really sells their capabilities. Case in point, when it came time to figure out what to do with the Haditha Dam, the job didn't go to an active duty officer...it went to a damn operator who was also a reservist.
I mean I can understand your point, it is all about how well you do your military job. I guess I am looking at it from the point of view where the civilian job of Reservists/National Guardsman is what really sells their capabilities. Case in point, when it came time to figure out what to do with the Haditha Dam, the job didn't go to an active duty officer...it went to a damn operator who was also a reservist.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
SPC (Join to see) - I get what you’re saying and yes, sometimes RC Soldiers with relative civilian jobs can get the head nod. Frankly, I think that’s a good thing as well if I’m reading you right. I’m a counterintelligence officer and I was a State Trooper in civilian world – both jobs complement each other. Unfortunately, many RC Soldiers either don’t have jobs that are relative or the topic never comes up. On the other hand, I’ve seen commanders suddenly reassign jobs when they find out a RC Soldier is a civil engineer when they need a building rebuilt and the Seabees aren’t available. But this isn’t the point of the topic – it’s about respect, confidence and equal treatment.
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SPC (Join to see)
I think they are one and the same though Chief, at least as it pertains to respect, confidence, and equal treatment. I mean let's take a look at how people view the Ranger Tab. No matter if you are an officer, a PFC, or an NCO...when people with a Ranger Tab see another service member with a Ranger Tab there is an instant bonding and understanding. I think this is the problem that you are seeing in your situation in that very few people have relative experience to see what it is you can bring to the table as a Reservist/National Guardsman. You are trying to convince a small closed community (the Active Component) that you not only can do the job, but you have other enhancing critical skills.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
Well said SPC Smith but again, it’s annoying as hell to be viewed as inferior the moment it’s discovered you are RC/NG. And since you mentioned the Ranger tab thing… Anyone with a tab who has served in a Ranger Bat will look for a Ranger Bat combat patch or ask if they ever served in Bat. Those who simply earned a tab are viewed similarly as those who are five jump commando’s versus Airborne Soldiers who served in an airborne unit. Not to say that just going to Ranger or Airborne school to earn a tab or wings is a bad thing, they’re tough schools.
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