Posted on May 16, 2022
MAJ Norm Michaels
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This social experiment on soldiers was started in the late 1960s, and it mostly died away in the late 1980s, with the exception of SP4. Is a team leader SP4 any less of a leader than a corporal?
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SP5 Michael Diggles
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I’m glad not to have had a leadership role. I was good at driving landing craft and happy to have been a SP5.
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CPT Staff Officer
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I think it's a recruiting an retention tool.
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CPL Frederick Michel
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Good Clerks run a company, HQ detachment, and Division schedules. We are specialist, qualified, and deserve to continue in rank without NCO schools or leaderhsip ranks. Bring back the SP5 through SP7. Keep your qualified specialist.
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MAJ Robert Walters
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Edited 3 y ago
Exactly, but let's ditch "Spec" for something more cool.Any ideas?
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MAJ Robert Walters
MAJ Robert Walters
3 y
before=for
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MAJ Norm Michaels
MAJ Norm Michaels
3 y
A ‘T’ for Technical Corporal, technical Sergeant, technical Staff Sergeant, etc.
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MAJ Robert Walters
MAJ Robert Walters
3 y
I think that was done in the past. It begs the question of who is in charge. Say a situation where the highest rank is a SP6 but there's a buck sergeant or even a corporal on the scene. Perhaps part of a convoy. Who's in charge?

Also, what about a Combat support (like SignalCorps or Cyber) CPT who finds himself attached to a CBT company (INF, AR, AVN, FA) and the company CO is not around. The XO (1LT) should be uncharge, not the SC CPT.
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SSG Ted Strachan
SSG Ted Strachan
>1 y
Tech (1943-48) works just fine for me.
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CPL Sheila Lewis
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After hs graduation, I attended Army Basic and learned as I went ....ROTC in hs sure would have been a big help.
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The Army is set in its old, old ways! Every other Branch of American Military has junior NCO’s in E-4 CPLS and Petty Officers the system works for junior leadership. Plus every other Military branch around the World has junior NCO’s CPL’s and Petty Officers and the system works. But maybe the entire Worlds Military’s are wrong but I don’t think so!
CPT Earl George
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At one point when I was the platoon leader of a 4.2" mortar platoon in Germany in 1973, I had no members of my platoon who were E-5 or above. I had 9 individuals who were of SP-4 rank, the senior of which was a draftee. Yes, I had a platoon that was about half draftees and half voluntary enlistees. The senior SP4 did not want to be PSG but did a nice job for me until I got some NCO's.
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CPL Bill Schroeder
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When I was in, a long time ago, a corporal was an NCO. Unless that changed you would have an army full of NCOs. That situation would seem to be problematic.
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SGT Chuck Freiman
SGT Chuck Freiman
3 y
CPL Schroeder, you are exactly right. I was on Active Duty, it was either '85 or '86, when the ranks of SP5 and above were eliminated. Nobody was happy. SP5 and above were expected to be instant leaders, regardless if they had the training or not. And many did not. Us SPC-4s were unhappy because E-4 CPLS now outranked us. I remembered all us SPC-4s wanted the "hard stripe" because we didn't want to be bossed around by our fellow E-4s, who were CPLs. However the hard stripe was reserved for E-4s serving in combat arms. Our dreams of being an NCO, were dashed unless and until we made
E-5.
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CPT Nicolas Smith
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Thats the truth! We had an E-7 AG we referred to as Spec-7
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CW3 Senior Supply Systems Tech
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Meah….this to me is moot. Especially in support world, where many SGTs and SSGs do a ton of tech work already. Are we really saying that training Soldiers and making sure their admin actions is that difficult, to the point that we’d create a forth service track?

If you want to do nothing but tech work, go Warrant.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Casey O'Mally
3 y
But warrants are commissioned officers - we still expect them to lead.

Where do we put technical experts who are just not inclined or able to lead? Right now the answer is "on the street.". Which means we lose highly capable folks. I see this most often in maintenance. We have guys that can keep a HMMWV running long enough to get back to base with nothing more than pantyhose, duct tape, bubble gum, and a few paper clips. They KNOW their vehicles, inside and out, and can do WONDERS. But put them in charge of someone and now you have privates who are lost somewhere in the training area - and a lost SGT trying to find them. And Gods forbid you ask them to PLAN anything. So we have a choice - incompetent NCO, or loss of expertise. Or, as you seem to suggest, incompetent WO.

Personally, I HATED leading Soldiers. Not my cup of tea. I prefer doing. All day, everyday. Give me a problem, give me resources, and give me an end state. Then let me go to work. If necessary resources includes manpower, sure, LOAN ME the troops to get it done. But holding PVT Snuffy's hand to make sure he is at formation, or checking SPC Smith's room EVERY @$$#&#$# MORNING because he doesn't know how to take out trash or do a load of laundry? Or getting called at 0130 because PFC Jones and her husband got in a fight... again? No thanks.

I had no problem teaching, coaching, mentoring, developing... on a task by task basis. If I was doing something, and you were standing around, sure I'll teach you. If you were doing something, and I knew a better way, sure I'd offer my advice. If you came to me with a problem - personal or professional - and wanted feedback or advice, I'm right here for you. Anytime. But asking me to come up with a comprehensive plan to train 350 individual and collective tasks, and ensure each and every Soldier is proficient on all of them? Does not sound like a job I want.

Of course, the Army didn't ask me what I wanted. They told me what I would do. And do it I did, to the best of my ability. And, judging by my NCOERs and feedback from both seniors and subordinates, I believe I did so to a relatively high level.

But if the Army HAD asked me, I would have JUMPED at an SP7 - or even an SP6 - slot. I was, I believe, a good, not great, SFC. Well above average. I would have been, I believe, an AWESOME SP7. 10/10 would recommend.
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SGT Apollo Sharpe
SGT Apollo Sharpe
3 y
Go Warrant? How? When I got out, you had to be an NCO to go Warrant for the technical MOSes. So, if you didn’t want to become an NCO, your only choice was to get out -because there wasn’t a path from SPC directly to Warrant.
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CPL (Non-Rated)
CPL (Join to see)
2 y
SFC Casey O'Mally This is all too true, especially of the more technical MOS that exist. I had made my entire battalion 100 percent readiness for comsec. Including training soldiers on Thursday. I wanted to stay there but I had to change MOS because that one had maxed out points.
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