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Two recent, interesting articles. One from The Atlantic, one from Salon (and I'll acknowledge the bias of Salon from the get go, so no one needs to spend time attacking the source; The Atlantic, though, is, as they say, "of no party or clique."
Do you agree the US win-lose record since 1945 is 1-4? Do you agree that the US loses wars precisely because it is so powerful? Why haven't Eisenhower's warnings about the military-industrial complex led to any sort of meaningful controls on the DoD budget?
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/america-win-loss-iraq-afghanistan/394559/
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/16/the_dwight_eisenhower_lesson_america_forgot_partner/
Do you agree the US win-lose record since 1945 is 1-4? Do you agree that the US loses wars precisely because it is so powerful? Why haven't Eisenhower's warnings about the military-industrial complex led to any sort of meaningful controls on the DoD budget?
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/america-win-loss-iraq-afghanistan/394559/
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/16/the_dwight_eisenhower_lesson_america_forgot_partner/
USA
Iraq
Afghanistan
Politics
Vietnam War
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 189
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Because we pick the wrong battles...either because of bad intel or ulterior motive.
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Recently we have pretty much won every war, Iraq 1, Iraq 2, Afghan. But keeping people under the idea of wanting to be free or having options is not what a lot of these people seem to understand. Sadly I think they work better under a semi dictatorship.
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SGT Lawrence Corser
well In the actual ground combat phase of both, their governments were toppled in less then 45 days, their country was given a new government and they are now in the phase of rebuilding, which is not part of the war anymore. They still call it that but the war is the initial portion, the peace keeping is the portion that follows a victory.
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SSG (Join to see)
One can argue that our victory turned into a disaster once the war was won... however I don't see how it can be argued that we didn't win Iraq 2 or Afghanistan.
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We have not lost, we will not loose, and no matter what some hippie thinks the lands that were lost AFTER we have left because of their belly aching have been lost by the locals we left them to, not us.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Does the military bear any responsibility for the way things have gone in Iraq or Afghanistan, or do we place all the blame on the politicians? Aren't our senior military leaders responsible for advising our politicians, developing military strategy, and implementing it to win?
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SSG Trevor S.
MAJ (Join to see) I am fairly certain that our top military leaders advised against leaving wholesale. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/15/obama-ignored-generals-pleas-to-keep-american-forc/?page=all
Obama ignored general’s pleas to keep American forces in Iraq
The last American commander in Iraq recommended to the Obama administration that 23,000 U.S. troops remain to cement the victory, but no deal was ever reached with Baghdad, and all combat forces went home.
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This article and the discussion below make me want to drink.
Guaranteed if another war kicks off, I'll be first in line. But I won't be too happy about it. Or optimistic.
Guaranteed if another war kicks off, I'll be first in line. But I won't be too happy about it. Or optimistic.
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SPC (Join to see)
Sgt Richard Buckner HA. To quote the great brown-coat Malcolm Reynolds, "When I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new."
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Clausewitz: "a certain grasp of military affairs is vital for those in charge of general policy.” Soldiers win battles and our politicians lose wars precisely because most of them have zero understanding of "military affairs".
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MAJ (Join to see)
Does that extend to our senior military leaders, who are responsible for advising our politicians? Or do our senior military leaders not have any responsibility for the outcomes when force is employed?
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SSgt James Bowman
Yes indeed it does extend - not to all of them - but the "political" general officers for certain. They are as bad or worse as the politicians because they know better. It is an age old problem in the military depending on the CINC.
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We are ultimately lose wars after having won all of the battles because the decisions are being made by politicians trying to win a popularity contest instead of by results oriented tacticians. perhaps more succinctly stated; we are winning the wars and our leadership is giving away those victories in the name of political expedience.
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The answer to that question sadly is very simple. It's not the American soldiers' fault, the ones who are actually fighting the wars. We are in the fight to win. It goes back to ones giving the orders. The politicians that make the decisions.
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It is a complex question and everyone who answered has really good answers... to which I would add we violate the first rule of war: KNOW THE ENEMY! Sun Tzu...
We have training and manuals that will NOT address the ideology we are facing on the battlefield for fear of CAIR calling us names or suing us. People get fired for calling out the ideology that fuels the "extremism".
We have training and manuals that will NOT address the ideology we are facing on the battlefield for fear of CAIR calling us names or suing us. People get fired for calling out the ideology that fuels the "extremism".
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PO1 Kerry French
Well, an ideology that only understands strength and might... maybe... If the ideology was communism, MAD assured that we could beat them... when the ideology WANTS to die to become shahids and believe that only chaos can bring about their Mahdi... then we should use everything we can. They believe they will not go to paradise if killed by a woman... they will not to paradise if they are in contact with pork. Learn the war doctrine of the enemy and exploit the weaknesses. We have to take the incentive of martyrdom from jihad. Look what Thomas Jefferson did in the Barbary wars... and we didn't hear from them for a couple hundred years after that. They have found OUR weaknesses and are exploiting the crap out of it. George Washington had the right idea when he said, "Oh that I would have a Navy, I would CRUSH them out of existence."
So in addition to military power, we must use every wedge we can to break the will of the government. Israel is pretty successful most of the time... They don't care if the world calls them names, they fight for the protection of their people... built a wall, have checkpoints etc. Now... if they could only stop the mobile rocket launchers...
So in addition to military power, we must use every wedge we can to break the will of the government. Israel is pretty successful most of the time... They don't care if the world calls them names, they fight for the protection of their people... built a wall, have checkpoints etc. Now... if they could only stop the mobile rocket launchers...
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We won all wars. Just because we didnt completely decimate a country, which was not the intentions of the war, doesn't mean we lost the war. Our goals have always been met, with minor technicality in the Vietnam war, our country no longer supported the war and had to pull out (politics).
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
We never signed a peace treaty (the typical end of a war) with Korea and there is a strong case that we are still legally (but not actively) at war with North Korea.. Our goal was to keep Korea a whole country without communism (we failed).
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MAJ (Join to see)
We never declared war on Korea, so no need for a peace treaty, but point well stated. Vietnam being a minor technicality is an interesting framework, for sure.
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1LT William Clardy
Technically, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is unique in that it is the only nation which is the target of ongoing military action by the United Nations.
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1LT William Clardy
Darn it, Capt Jeff S., I was enjoying a nice long run of not agreeing with you until you went and said something sensible!
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