Posted on Aug 17, 2021
Why doesn't the United States Military consider adding electric or hybrid vehicles to their fleet of installation vehicles?
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As I understand it, long distance driving and infrastructure are a barrier to many civilian consumers, but on-installation vehicles don't travel outside of their immediate vicinity and electric charging stations could be built in the motor pools.
Vehicle
Military Industry
Technology
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
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it would be nice. but is it feasible
America and the world have an issue
there is NOT enough rare earth metals currently in the world to support the amount of electric cars, phones, computers, tablets etc.... everyone is predicting something like 85% of what we do have comes from china so the more electric we have the more we support china
afghanistan is sitting on rare earth metals and guess who the taliban was seen with ... china
then how do you charge them all California has already told citizens to stop charging cars so their rolling blackouts can be reduced texas exposed the flaws with solar and wind not being reliable
until such time as there is a major breakthrough in batteries this will never change
I like the idea i do not like supporting china
America and the world have an issue
there is NOT enough rare earth metals currently in the world to support the amount of electric cars, phones, computers, tablets etc.... everyone is predicting something like 85% of what we do have comes from china so the more electric we have the more we support china
afghanistan is sitting on rare earth metals and guess who the taliban was seen with ... china
then how do you charge them all California has already told citizens to stop charging cars so their rolling blackouts can be reduced texas exposed the flaws with solar and wind not being reliable
until such time as there is a major breakthrough in batteries this will never change
I like the idea i do not like supporting china
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CPT Angela Wilder - I like the concept! For strictly home station uses, I don't see why this wouldn't be a workable option. It's just my own opinion but I think part of the hesitancy is that many service vehicles (pickups, vans, maintenance vehicles, etc) could be sent "downrange" depending on the location and mission requirements. Charging stations may not (and most likely won't) be available whereas POL is more readily obtainable. Also, I can refuel a gas/diesel vehicle in minutes when the "fecal matter has impacted the atmospheric oscillator" whereas most electrics can take hours to fully recharge. Technology advances almost on a daily basis so that may become moot before long as well.
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CPT Angela Wilder
So far, it looks hybrids and not electric only would be the solution. However, according to an article that I linked to in another response, the U.S. Army is moving forward by implementing electric vehicle technology in tactical vehicles. So far, I am only aware of hybrids being researched and installed on an U.S. Airforce installations. I only received a negative response to the feasibility of electric only installation vehicles on Army bases. If it can be done with U.S. Army tactical vehicles…
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CPT Lawrence Cable
CPT Angela Wilder - I can give you the downside on Electric Vehicles. First is cost. If we look at one of the cheaper Electric Vehicles, the Nissan Leaf, it's $28,000. Compared to a similar sized Nissan, the Versa, which well equipped is $18,000. Then there is weight, sends we move stuff around the world a lot. The Leaf is about 3500 lbs. and the Versa around 2500 lbs. Then range and charging time, about 220 miles on the Leaf (which is horrible) and 2-4 hours charging on the home charge, down to about 30 minutes on a Fast Charge. The Versa has about a 350 mile range and can be refueled in a few minutes. Then the last, lithium batteries have a lot worse habit than gasoline engines of bursting into flames during an accident and reducing the vehicles to a burned out hull.
BTW, the problem is not electric motors, it is that the energy density in a battery is far less than in a gallon of gasoline. Battery Technology is mature, and over the years the improvement has been incremental, so chances of big technology breakthrough on capacity isn't likely to happen.
Now fuel cells have a lot of potential and they can be refueled just like a internal combustion engine.
BTW, the problem is not electric motors, it is that the energy density in a battery is far less than in a gallon of gasoline. Battery Technology is mature, and over the years the improvement has been incremental, so chances of big technology breakthrough on capacity isn't likely to happen.
Now fuel cells have a lot of potential and they can be refueled just like a internal combustion engine.
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MSG Randall Rankin
The R&D community is still heavily researching electric/hybrid powertrains. We had electric "buggies" at TACOM /TARDEC for about a year. They don't work worth a darn in the winter (NO HEAT!)
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SPC Stiv ChenRobbins
A lot of the problem is probably tha the military likes to adopt technologies on an all-or-nothing basis. There are probably bases where the tech is feasible. Not places like Alaska or Minnesota.
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As an Civilian employee of the Army Ground Vehicle System Center....we are.
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CPT Angela Wilder
Thank you for posting the link! The slides are very informative. A more recent article says, that the U.S. Army is implementing electric vehicle technology to tactical vehicles. So it seems that the U.S. Army has defeated some, if not all of the Combat Vehicle Electrification Challenges mentioned.
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OK. So maybe I am missing something here. But what vehicles are you referring to? Our TMP motor pool with civilian vehicles was for long-distance official travel. Our bus fleets often traveled local, but was expected to be able to travel greater distances when necessary, including distances up to 400 miles.
Our MP vehicles yes, were installation based, and when they did go off base were to local partners. However they were often kept running for most of a full shift.
And, of course, our tactical vehicles were, well.... Tactical.
Aside from the one staff duty van per unit, which could theoretically be electrified, I am not seeing a great quantity of vehicles here that would necessitate this shift or prove a value.
So what fleet of vehicles should we be electrifying?
Our MP vehicles yes, were installation based, and when they did go off base were to local partners. However they were often kept running for most of a full shift.
And, of course, our tactical vehicles were, well.... Tactical.
Aside from the one staff duty van per unit, which could theoretically be electrified, I am not seeing a great quantity of vehicles here that would necessitate this shift or prove a value.
So what fleet of vehicles should we be electrifying?
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CPT Angela Wilder
I'm hesitant to go against your expertise. My knowledge of installation vehicles usage of post is limited, so I cannot dispute your numbers. I've never seen installation vehicles travel those distances. I've only seen them used within the vicinity of the installation. Another poster mentioned that that the vehicles could be repurposed when the post is activated and electric only vehicles may not be feasible at that time. I am thinking that hybrid vehicles and not electric only vehicles could overcome those potential drawbacks.
Another poster, U.S. Airforce, linked to an article showing a U.S. Airforce installation implementing hybrid vehicles.
It looks like the U.S. Army is moving toward electrifying its tactical vehicles. As I mentioned before, it is a step away from our reliance on fossil fuels. Some feel it leads to conflicts, others feel it contributes to global warming, I know its usage is harmful to the environment. https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/3/4/just-in-army-all-in-on-electric-vehicle-technology
Another poster, U.S. Airforce, linked to an article showing a U.S. Airforce installation implementing hybrid vehicles.
It looks like the U.S. Army is moving toward electrifying its tactical vehicles. As I mentioned before, it is a step away from our reliance on fossil fuels. Some feel it leads to conflicts, others feel it contributes to global warming, I know its usage is harmful to the environment. https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/3/4/just-in-army-all-in-on-electric-vehicle-technology
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CPT Angela Wilder
How about the fire trucks and emergency vehicles on post? I linked to an article about a civilian one being purchased for a city, just below my question. Check it out!
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SFC Casey O'Mally
CPT Angela Wilder Ma'am my e"expertise" is very limited. I spent almostmy entire career tactical, with brief interludes in TRADOC - and all of that with one specific TRADOC unit. I am speaking specifically of what I saw, but when I say maybe I am missong something it is because I am open to the VERY real possibility that I am.... Well... Missing something.
Emergency responder vehicles would be a good example of something I had missed. I also have no idea what transpo looks like on every base. I *assume* that everyone uses POV for getting around base, but recognize that this is an assumption
Emergency responder vehicles would be a good example of something I had missed. I also have no idea what transpo looks like on every base. I *assume* that everyone uses POV for getting around base, but recognize that this is an assumption
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They do. A quick search and viola…
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/795307/hanscom-going-green-with-electric-vehicles/
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/795307/hanscom-going-green-with-electric-vehicles/
Hanscom going green with electric vehicles
In efforts to save energy, the 66th Logistics Readiness Squadron recently unveiled Hanscom Air Force Base
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CPT Angela Wilder
Great news! Has it worked? If so, I wonder if Hanscom acquired more electric vehicles since the posting of the article on June 9, 2016. It looks like the U.S. Army is reaching beyond installation vehicles, and applying electric vehicle technology to tactical vehicles. A great step away from our reliance on fossil fuels. https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/3/4/just-in-army-all-in-on-electric-vehicle-technology
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SSG (Join to see)
Hanscom is an incredibly small post. You can just about spit across it in any given direction. The farthest they'd likely have to travel is the 20 miles to the MEPS in Boston or MAYBE the 100 miles to the MEPS in Springfield or the Air Reserve base out there or the one in Portland, ME.
It's not like it's Texas or somewhere out west where they might have to travel a couple hundred miles to get somewhere. Hanscom would probably use a plane for that.
It's not like it's Texas or somewhere out west where they might have to travel a couple hundred miles to get somewhere. Hanscom would probably use a plane for that.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
SSG (Join to see) that was just a very quick and simple search. Other bases do it too.
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Two thumbs up. Let's make sure the vehicles have the best batteries and quickest recharge available. And it doesn't have to be made in USA.
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Best response:
CWO4 Terrence Clark
So, let's have U.S. military even more dependent on China?
Read an article today that only 25% of those own currently own EVs intend to buy another when it comes time to trade,
CWO4 Terrence Clark
So, let's have U.S. military even more dependent on China?
Read an article today that only 25% of those own currently own EVs intend to buy another when it comes time to trade,
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Excellent point and aligns with the Army's zero base strategic plan end game.
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