Posted on Oct 31, 2014
CPT Platoon Leader
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The day I turned my chevrons in for gold bars I noticed something. All the officers I've ever seen never wore marksmanship badges in dress uniforms. I just assumed they were unauthorized for officers and removed it voluntarily. I honestly never desired to wear the badge (probably because I was only ever a sharpshooter), but I haven't found any documentation specifically preventing officers from wearing them. Do you think officers should wear them?
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SGT Greg Gold
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Edited >1 y ago
I suppose it started with someone who just couldn't hit more than 23 pop ups, and didn't want to wear the 'iron cross of shame' when everyone else shot expert. At any rate officers are managers. Even when armed with a rifle they are tasked with directing the battle.

I have had officers show up at EIC matches because they wanted to wear something marksmanship related on their uniforms. The EIC is a permanent award with orders cut from the AMU at Ft Benning so you earn it once you own it.
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CW4 Tim Claus
CW4 Tim Claus
8 y
Failing to qualify would definitely get a ping on the OER, so it is not whether they can qualify. Unless you are combat arms, anything above qualification would be a non-factor on an OER, and once you get up to certain levels of responsibility, there isn't enough room on an OER to cover all that an officer does anyways.
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SGT Greg Gold
SGT Greg Gold
>1 y
My point is officers never fail to qualify, or pass their PT test. I was a unit armorer for three years, so I knew EVERY time a weapon was checked out or used. The enlisted also notice when their officers either fail a qual, a PT test, or when they absent when everyone else is doing the same. Much as the commissioned ranks don't want to admit, the number of officer only PT tests and weapons quals are noticed by the hordes of great unwashed. I was on a marksmanship team in the USAR, and again in the NYARNG, so my company and BN level leadership never failed to qualify on their assigned weapons.
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SFC Senior Human Resources Supervisor
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The philosophy seems to stem from two schools of thought:

1. an Officer's primary role in combat is not to fight, but to manage the firepower under his charge. Part of this responsibility requires rapid movement between positions and locations, which makes firing (and even simply carrying) a firearm a secondary measure.

2. an Officer is expected to be a master of everything that occurs in a unit; he appoints NCOs to train and mentor, and expects junior officers to also attend that training... the assumption however is that Officers become experts because they are trained by NCOs, and since they're considered "experts by default", the badge is not necessary.

Personally, I don't see the point either way. I've noticed plenty of people (especially seniors) who don't even perform APFT events to standard... probably not the best strategy to have more things on the uniform when we need to focus on the standards in question.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
Correct on number 2, SFC (Join to see).
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
8 y
The only rational conclusion that I can draw from the absence of a marksmanship badge on an officer's uniform, is the same assessment I would make for the same absence on an EM's uniform ---- non-qualifier.
I find no basis for the assumption of "expert" on such non-display of marksmanship badges.
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CW4 Tim Claus
CW4 Tim Claus
8 y
Also note that officers do not have equivalents of many enlisted skill badges. And in many CSS fields, DA opposes any skill badges for officers CWOs or enlisted. So overall, the actual regs and management is pretty darn inconsistent overall.
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SFC Oswald Williams
SFC Oswald Williams
8 y
SFC I wouldn't wear a badge if I couldn't shoot either .. I wore mine and made dam sure all my soldiers wore theirs proudly
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1LT Special Security Officer (Sso)
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I have heard that it's tradition that officers set the example of what right looks like, therefore it is supposed to be assumed that officers are expert marksmen because we set the example
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SPC Eric Cunningham
SPC Eric Cunningham
8 y
CW3 Harvey K. - the officer marksmanship badge will be crossed drivers and shooting a par will earn expert.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
8 y
SPC Eric Cunningham - Any non-qualifiers will have to serve as caddies for the top golfers on the next "qualification".
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SPC Eric Cunningham
SPC Eric Cunningham
8 y
CW3 Harvey K. - multiple failures get demoted to grounds crew - taking care of that groundhog problem
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
8 y
SPC Eric Cunningham - Of course they won't be allowed to shoot the groundhogs. They will have to fix bayonets and charge the pesky critters.
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LTC Michael Sternfeld
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I was an enlisted man for 3 years, including a 12 month stint in Vietnam. After that I took ROTC at college and made a career out of the Army Reserve that included Operation Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom [at age 58 no less!]. I was always proud to wear my marksmenship badges. Most NCOs and junior enlisted troops always complemented me on my skill set. I was sought out on the range for coaching marginal shooters. I wonder why some officers are afraid to show their skill level? It takes extra time to practice and its at your own expense but every military leader, no matter what his or her MOS is actually in the final analysis a leader of a platoon or company of riflemen. Our skills with military weapons is a bedrock part of our military skill set and leadership ability.
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CW3 Naomi Stewart
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I was told, upon graduation and pinning on my wobbly ones, that "tradition" says officers don't wear them, therefore we shouldn't wear them (this was from a schoolhouse Warrant). A week later, I was talking with a senior crusty old Warrant. He had his Expert Marksman badge on his jacket. We had the same discussion. He said "I am a Warrant, that means I was prior enlisted. I know it, the troops know it and the COL knows it. I earned this badge and I'm wearing it. The RLO's don't wear it because they don't have a clue how to shoot a rifle and couldn't qualify if they had to. Wear it." So I did. I may have been in the minority, but then again I've never been afraid to stick out. Honestly, I think it's rather deceitful and indicator of shame when prior enlisted try to remove all traces that they were enlisted. I am not ashamed that I was an NCO before I was a Warrant.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
8 y
Well said, Chief. That "senior crusty old Warrant" sounds like the kind of guy we called a "sea-going sack of salt" back in the old Corps.
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SFC Michael Smart
SFC Michael Smart
8 y
Chief, I'll work for a mind like yours. I seen to many young Warrants who did not want anything to do with enlisted unless it was convenient!
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CW3 Naomi Stewart
CW3 Naomi Stewart
8 y
That's sad. I would hope that is the exception rather than the rule among young Warrants.
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CPT Family Medicine
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I'll give you an honest answer. I am an officer, a physician in the Army. Not all officers are created equally. Unlike soldiers in the MTOE units, I have been to the M-16/M-4 range two times over 7 years, both times to qualify. I barely qualified.
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1LT Rich Voss
1LT Rich Voss
7 y
CPT - you still qualified ! I'd rather have you treating my illness or injury than wondering or worrying how you'd do as my tank gunner. Truth !
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Cpl Rc Layne
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I can't help you on this one. I only know about the Marines, and every Marine wears their rifle and pistol qualification medals.
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CW3 David Kaye
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They do in many cases. I was an enlisted man for 13 years and shortly after making E-7 I became a warrant officer, retiring at the grade of CW3. I fired "Expert" with 6 different weapons as an EM/Sr. NCO and proudly wore my expert badge with a pretty long "ladder" on my uniform after becoming an officer.
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CPT Hr Director
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I am a prior SSG- I wear mine sometimes, mostly for kicks. Most people don't notice. I agree with the Marine though...
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1LT Engineer Officer
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Why advertise that youre only a marksman if you can just let them guess? Until range time that is.
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CPT Company Commander
CPT (Join to see)
8 y
Until range day indeed. I still fail to understand issues with IWQ. I mean if I can get Expert, it cant be that hard. Personally I accept nothing less for myself so I've always wanted to wear the badge. Then again my list of things I think should be common knowledge/skills is apparently longer than the list in reality. Shoot expert, drive a manual, back up a trailer, change vehicle fluids, kill animals for food...
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1LT Engineer Officer
1LT (Join to see)
8 y
I still fail at backing up a trailer. I need to practice more.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
8 y
CPT (Join to see) - Your ideas are sound, Lieutenant. Have you been reading Heinlein?

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Robert Heinlein in “Time Enough for Love”
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CPT Company Commander
CPT (Join to see)
8 y
CW3 Harvey K. - I haven't, but he sounds like my kind of man. I'll look for his work.
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