Posted on Oct 31, 2014
Why don't officers wear marksmanship badges?
762K
5.72K
1.87K
522
522
0
The day I turned my chevrons in for gold bars I noticed something. All the officers I've ever seen never wore marksmanship badges in dress uniforms. I just assumed they were unauthorized for officers and removed it voluntarily. I honestly never desired to wear the badge (probably because I was only ever a sharpshooter), but I haven't found any documentation specifically preventing officers from wearing them. Do you think officers should wear them?
Officer
Uniforms
Marksmanship
Badges
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 764
0
0
0
In my 23-plus years, l never heard a satisfactory answer to that question either, although l learned about it the first day l reported to my first unit at Fort Hood as a newly minted 2LT. I reported to my CO in my dress greens, with nothing on my chest but an ASR, airborne wings, and weapons qualification badges from IOBC. I was proud of them, because l have been a good shot since l was a little kid. The company commander- who was not a nice person, and who l grew to dislike more over time- looked me up and down and said: “take that shit off! Officers don’t wear qualification badges!” Later, l asked the XO about it, and his answer gave me a clue about the command climate, and awards policy. He said that officers were leaders of units, not weapons operators, and qualification badges were “trinkets and baubles” intended to keep the EMs happy- make them feel like they had accomplished something, since they rarely received any awards. You just about had to die to be considered for any kind of award- more so if you were an officer. While it is (or was) tradition in most places that officers got at least an ARCOM when they PCSed, when l left Hood, l got nada, zip.
Of course, we still were expected to qualify “expert” on the rifle for EIB testing, and on my worst days, l never shot less than 38/40.
I like the theory, that somewhere in the past, some senior officer couldn’t shoot worth a damn, so rather than embarrass himself with a “marksman” badge, or no badge, he outlawed the badges for officers. But we’ll never know for sure…
Of course, we still were expected to qualify “expert” on the rifle for EIB testing, and on my worst days, l never shot less than 38/40.
I like the theory, that somewhere in the past, some senior officer couldn’t shoot worth a damn, so rather than embarrass himself with a “marksman” badge, or no badge, he outlawed the badges for officers. But we’ll never know for sure…
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
This thread goes into marksmanship in general, beside the badge issue. That takes me back to my time in, the 1960s. The Navy seemed not to encourage small arms proficiency. True, most Naval weapons are really big arms, and sailors rarely actually see enemy personnel. But that isn't a good reason to not support shooting. On one ship, as a known shooter, a shipmate invited me to come along on a pistol team practice. Afterward, some official told me I shouldn't have attended since I wasn't a team member. Shameful attitude. I had a .45 that I checked in on reporting for duty. On one base I checked it out for practice outdoors, and when I returned it I was told that I couldn't just check it out and in like that. Also shameful. At least on another ship the Gunner's Mate who ran the small arms locker felt differently. I could take it out and in anytime, and he supported me with ammo and supplies. Rare, it seems. At least on many submarines, it is common to come to a stop sometimes, and let the crew have a little practice on floating targets (trash). On the surface, of course. Har. A shooting day is still one of my highlights. Sort of off the subject, I recall a bumper sticker: "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon."
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
This is one of those RP discussions that assumes a particular branch of service; in this case, the Army. It would be useful if such assumptions were stated.
As a number of Marines have pointed out, this practice doesn't seem to exist in the Corps. In the Navy, marksmanship awards aren't that common in the big three communities (aviation, surface, and submarines), except for boarding parties and such. There's a general perception that "Sailors and small arms don't mix", mostly due to a lack of training. It's not a primary mission requirement.
OTOH, in the brown water Navy, officers were closely observed by the enlisted folks when we shot for qualification, and expected to wear what we earned. I saw it as similar to submarine quals; I knew that a Sailor wearing Dolphins had the basic knowledge to contribute to our safe return home if "bad stuff" happened. Similarly, my shooting Expert on rifle and pistol ensured my team that I took that aspect seriously and would be part of the solution if the SHTF. When we deployed, my security team leader (a former USMC Gunny) made sure there was an M-16 with my name on. Not my official carry weapon, and I'd probably never use it, but I took it as a sign of respect and confidence from my team.
As a number of Marines have pointed out, this practice doesn't seem to exist in the Corps. In the Navy, marksmanship awards aren't that common in the big three communities (aviation, surface, and submarines), except for boarding parties and such. There's a general perception that "Sailors and small arms don't mix", mostly due to a lack of training. It's not a primary mission requirement.
OTOH, in the brown water Navy, officers were closely observed by the enlisted folks when we shot for qualification, and expected to wear what we earned. I saw it as similar to submarine quals; I knew that a Sailor wearing Dolphins had the basic knowledge to contribute to our safe return home if "bad stuff" happened. Similarly, my shooting Expert on rifle and pistol ensured my team that I took that aspect seriously and would be part of the solution if the SHTF. When we deployed, my security team leader (a former USMC Gunny) made sure there was an M-16 with my name on. Not my official carry weapon, and I'd probably never use it, but I took it as a sign of respect and confidence from my team.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
My dad was a 1st sgt.....He told me if I couldnt qualify as expert, to not advertise my failures. lol. I got expert in Rifle, Pistol, Hand grenade, M3 submachinegun, and Tank weapons,,,,Having all that hanging under the expert badge felt awesome.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Perhaps one the higher up Officers could help your understanding'
my vote would be to wear it !
Vietnam Vet /
my vote would be to wear it !
Vietnam Vet /
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I’ve worn them and haven’t worn them. Frankly, I don’t spend too much time thinking about a uniform that I rarely wear. Too many leaders spend entirely too much time focusing on things that simply don’t matter.
If you’re an NCO, why are you worried about what Officers do? I’d rather you worry about ensuring your female Soldiers aren’t being sexually harassed by your peers. Can your young Sergeants train 10 level Soldiers, not just on technical and tactical tasks…but are they giving and teaching good life skills, providing advice, and creating atmospheres where Soldiers enjoy serving. Are you giving them their quarterly counseling’s that give them the right career azimuth to be successful?
Are our young Company Commanders being led to make smart choices or are they just being yes men/women and doing what they think is going to put them in a good light with their BN Commander? Can they identify Soldiers who are struggling mentally, physically, or chemically within their formations and get them the support they need and deserve before they go off the deep end?
Are our Warrant Officers continuing to earn their Warrant as Officers by giving the boss the information that will assist in keeping the unit afloat? Are they making sure that Junior Warrant Officers are being treated as such, or are they allowing them to be looked at as LTs and not SMEs?
Lots and lots on our plate, that merits deeper and more critical thinking.
If you’re an NCO, why are you worried about what Officers do? I’d rather you worry about ensuring your female Soldiers aren’t being sexually harassed by your peers. Can your young Sergeants train 10 level Soldiers, not just on technical and tactical tasks…but are they giving and teaching good life skills, providing advice, and creating atmospheres where Soldiers enjoy serving. Are you giving them their quarterly counseling’s that give them the right career azimuth to be successful?
Are our young Company Commanders being led to make smart choices or are they just being yes men/women and doing what they think is going to put them in a good light with their BN Commander? Can they identify Soldiers who are struggling mentally, physically, or chemically within their formations and get them the support they need and deserve before they go off the deep end?
Are our Warrant Officers continuing to earn their Warrant as Officers by giving the boss the information that will assist in keeping the unit afloat? Are they making sure that Junior Warrant Officers are being treated as such, or are they allowing them to be looked at as LTs and not SMEs?
Lots and lots on our plate, that merits deeper and more critical thinking.
(0)
(0)
SPC Dan Kissling
I strongly and respectfully disagree Chief. I was always taught that both the big stuff (sharp/etc) AND the little stuff were equally important cuz lots of little things add up to a big collective thing. I was also crushed by Drill Sergeants to pay close attention to detail and officers should be held to a higher standard of performance for basic warrior tasks like marksmanship. I was also crushed by Drill Sergeants with the important concept that every Soldier is first and foremost an Infantryman. If an officer can't qualify more than bare minimum then why should I give them my loyalty and respect?
All in all marksmanship standards are weak, the only long barrel weapon I ever fired pre-BCT was a small gauge shotgun and within 2 years of my entry date I had qualified expert rifle, pistol, and grenade once each. I never qualified anything less than expert again the rest of my 8 years in each category. If I can do it with 0 prior significant experience no reason others can't, especially officers who are supposed to live up to a higher standard.
The Army also really needs to get serious about fixing their ranges, lost of ranges out there that I barely qualified sharpshooter but on others I qualified expert no problem. Impossible that it was an issue with my shooting when I always was able to zero in 9 rounds or less with most of my zeros final grouping consisting of at least 2 round holes almost touching each other. One of my zeros at BCT a Drill Sergeant couldn't even really figure out if I had put 2 rounds through the exact same hole.
All in all marksmanship standards are weak, the only long barrel weapon I ever fired pre-BCT was a small gauge shotgun and within 2 years of my entry date I had qualified expert rifle, pistol, and grenade once each. I never qualified anything less than expert again the rest of my 8 years in each category. If I can do it with 0 prior significant experience no reason others can't, especially officers who are supposed to live up to a higher standard.
The Army also really needs to get serious about fixing their ranges, lost of ranges out there that I barely qualified sharpshooter but on others I qualified expert no problem. Impossible that it was an issue with my shooting when I always was able to zero in 9 rounds or less with most of my zeros final grouping consisting of at least 2 round holes almost touching each other. One of my zeros at BCT a Drill Sergeant couldn't even really figure out if I had put 2 rounds through the exact same hole.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google