20
18
2
Every day I log onto RallyPoint to see Officers, NCOs, and
Soldiers complaining about living up to the standard. We have all seen the posts about how important a 300 is then many long time NCOs chime in about how the Army standard is 180 and if that is the standard than it is good enough. Then we have hundreds of posts about how the weight control program sucks and I weigh too much and it’s not fair. Leaders and Soldiers thinking that just
because you know a little something about your job you shouldn’t have to meet that standard. There are a few posts discussing how a 110 GT score is too high and we should lower it because people are not good at tests. Then I have seen posts of people thinking that striving for distinguished honor grad and commandants list are not all that important.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
Standards
APFT
NCOES
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
1
1
0
I agree everyone should be above the standard if they can. However, you have to have a baseline for a standard to exist in the first place otherwise what defines doing better than the standard. Standards are set as the baseline for what is considered an acceptable metric to meet the needs of your service. You can't punish someone for meeting the standards. You can punish for being below and reward those who rise significantly above.
You can have someone who is a gym nut and scores max points but be dirtbag and incompetent at their job. You can have someone who is exceptional at their job maintains standards and is a better asset in the long run. Of course someone who can max PT and be exemplary in their duties. Those are the ones who usually go further.
You can have someone who is a gym nut and scores max points but be dirtbag and incompetent at their job. You can have someone who is exceptional at their job maintains standards and is a better asset in the long run. Of course someone who can max PT and be exemplary in their duties. Those are the ones who usually go further.
(1)
(0)
LTC Mark Gavula
Yep,there are those that arePT animals and can bench press a fire truck and arenot technically or tactically proficient and can't lead themselves to the latrine. I call this a leadership problem. A leader who talks the walk but can't walk the walk. The leader does not have the guts to tell a soldier they do not have the requisites to continue in the army.
(2)
(0)
I hate to say it but the Army standard is 180, 60 in each event. That means you passed the APFT. It doesn't hurt to strive to do better on the PT test. I for one try my hardest every time.
I still remember all the hoops I had to jump through when going to WLC because I did not score 70 in each event. I had a bad day that day, we are all allowed those every now and again.
I am not saying PT isn't good for you. We still need to fit but you can still be fit as a fiddle and score a 180.
Just my thoughts.
I still remember all the hoops I had to jump through when going to WLC because I did not score 70 in each event. I had a bad day that day, we are all allowed those every now and again.
I am not saying PT isn't good for you. We still need to fit but you can still be fit as a fiddle and score a 180.
Just my thoughts.
(1)
(0)
LTC Mark Gavula
Leaders set the example and standard. If the minimum is your standard, then that is the standard for your Soldiers. As the First Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman, CSM Joe Gainey said,pride is contagious! If leaders have no pride neither will your soldiers.
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
It is not about lowering the standard it is like in high school and all the cool kids hung out so you have some one that is exceptional at athletics and scores real high and people start using that as the standard but like what has been said before what about he ability to do the job how can you help that young soldier who's pay is messed up and all they are told is well that happen to me when I got here like it is normal but that same person that can do a 300 pt score cannot research the way to fix a persons pay it is amazing yes in the military you need to be fit and you need to be able to bullets down range effectually but in my case I am pretty sure when someone roles into my E/R bay in a bad cardiac rhythm the thing on that soldiers mind is I wonder if this nurse scored high on his PT test or shout above marksman? No I am pretty sure is will he be able to save me because I am not ready to die.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
Yes and no. During the wars, we needed troops. As a 1SG, I submitted packets to BN only to have them kicked back. Why, cause EOD is a critically short MOS and we couldn't afford to lose any. Now is that the right answer? How many lives did that Soldier save defeating IEDs? Where is the trade off? Who knows? But I do know as NCOs we have to do the right thing. If the senior leaders appointed above us decide to do something different, then that's on them we can't control them. But at the end of the day, you will sleep better knowing you did what's right IAW Army Regs.
(1)
(0)
1LT (Join to see)
I completely agree that mission dictates our actions. If we need performers and we have those that can deliver when needed while not meeting other standards, we'll keep them because we're morally obligated to make the mission happen.
My worry is not waiving standards for contingencies. Hell, even generators have a battle short to keep running into critical failure just to provide those additional hours of power.
What worries me is that many Soldiers and Leaders think that's how we're always supposed to conduct business. I had a talk with a SFC recently where he related a story of how he was lip-synching the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer after the first few lines and how someone was rude to call him out on that. My own WLC SGL told the class how he failed his most recent APFT and didn't display an ounce of shame or remorse.
That's the kind of stuff where the sheaths come off the knife-hands because we have authority figures in the military who don't "buy into that whole Army crap."
My worry is not waiving standards for contingencies. Hell, even generators have a battle short to keep running into critical failure just to provide those additional hours of power.
What worries me is that many Soldiers and Leaders think that's how we're always supposed to conduct business. I had a talk with a SFC recently where he related a story of how he was lip-synching the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer after the first few lines and how someone was rude to call him out on that. My own WLC SGL told the class how he failed his most recent APFT and didn't display an ounce of shame or remorse.
That's the kind of stuff where the sheaths come off the knife-hands because we have authority figures in the military who don't "buy into that whole Army crap."
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
Frankly, I was as a mid-career junior NCO put out for not making progress IAW AR 600-9. Looking back at it, as I knew then, I was perceived by senior leadership as an embarrassment to my Soldiers. I accepted that I was "under the cannon" but I did try to get better. I also now view that while some senior to me were catching hell on my behalf, I also appreciate those who tried to help me or those who were honest to me about it.
Not befitting me, but understanding me and my issues and then even despite that, utilized my strengths still. I accepted as I did when I came back from knee reconstruction surgery that I was on borrowed time. My view is that it's not acceptable to expect what you as the leader cannot meet yourself. But like some of my seniors did, my Soldiers accepted me at face value, especially when I told them with regards to PT and AR 600-9 that they MUST be better than I am. And they were, even as I was being separated from service and beyond.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
SSG Beutler, you do indeed have a point. During the push to meet numbers, the Army slacked off on enforcing some standards, and it has influenced Army culture. The Army is just now starting to push higher enforcement of standards, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.
I feel like this because the first half of my career, I had that attitude, that I met the minimum standard in my weakest area (PT) and was fine, and so I put all my effort into honing my strengths more. That mistake has cost me, and my military career is more than likely over with my current ETS date, if not a med board, because I failed to push myself where I needed to more.
(1)
(0)
SPC Dan Goforth
It has a lot to do with my back. I have well documented back issues, and had I put more effort into being physically fit six years ago, I likely would not be in this position. I also likely would have finished my Pashto language course and successfully reclassed. I did just fail a PT test, the first time in years, I had a major spasm right in the middle of the sit up event, but that's only one piece of the puzzle. I'm not looking forward to being rushed into a PT test when I get to Carson, but it doesn't change the fact that I did it to myself.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I'm with LTC Paul Labrador on this one. A standard has to be somewhere and if the Army Standard is 180 with 60 in each event then that is the standard. Now do I think that a Soldier who is fully capable if scoring higher on the APFT but chooses to do the bare minimum should be the first to be a 1SG or be the first to be excepted to a certain school should be, then the answer is a big NO. The standard is there to be the minimum standard, that's it. A leader should always try to exceed the standard. Whether it is at their occupation or fitness.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
Probably because the society doesn't live to a standard- safe places, no inflammatory images, everyone getting a ribbon or trophy for just showing up. Their is even a kids soccer league who will play without a ball, to cut down on possible injuries.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
If meeting the standard isn't enough, and exceeding the standard becomes the new expectation, then you've literally created a new standard.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google