Posted on Nov 27, 2015
Why has our training of Arab troops failed to have positive results?
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Over and over we participate in the training of Arab troops. We train them, supply them and back them and still there is failure of those troops to be successful when tested.
Should we be suprised by this? We can look at the Arab Army conflicts of the past century and see that there has repeatedly been failures for them to thrive.
Failure to thrive means that they don't pass the walk stage where we are there with them and they are able to run on their own, not just for one engagement but that the are able to pass the skills on that they learned to each other to the next wave of Soldiers, but they don't.
What is the reason for this? I have long thought the reason for this is cultural. Hundreds of years of cultural training. Training that certain classes do not perform certain tasks and that the educated do no associate with those who are not, the desire to centralize information and that having information is powerful.
Maybe we should be training them not on tactics but on how to make an organization work better. Through command and control combined with the dissemination of information.
We should train our own soldiers on the observed cultural stumbling blocks that hold their military back.
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
Should we be suprised by this? We can look at the Arab Army conflicts of the past century and see that there has repeatedly been failures for them to thrive.
Failure to thrive means that they don't pass the walk stage where we are there with them and they are able to run on their own, not just for one engagement but that the are able to pass the skills on that they learned to each other to the next wave of Soldiers, but they don't.
What is the reason for this? I have long thought the reason for this is cultural. Hundreds of years of cultural training. Training that certain classes do not perform certain tasks and that the educated do no associate with those who are not, the desire to centralize information and that having information is powerful.
Maybe we should be training them not on tactics but on how to make an organization work better. Through command and control combined with the dissemination of information.
We should train our own soldiers on the observed cultural stumbling blocks that hold their military back.
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
Training
Special Operations
Middle East
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 16
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CPT (Join to see) Can't do nation building for a people that don't value the concept of their nation, until the population value nationalism over tribalism, we/Arab society will not be successful. The idea of tribalism and Caliph is what is valued and taught, our western attempts to nation build mean we must have an honest conversation with the extremist Arab states that support these concepts: The Saudi's and other wealthy states continue to teach Wahhabist nihilistic theology. When the mission shifted from a defined military objective to nation building we need to push back on our civilian leadership and ask the question of what is the objective?
Our civilian leadership under Bush and now Obama choose to ignore the true cost of nation building. To Obama's credit at least he flatly says we will not engage, that is an omission of leadership, his blind spot is his unwillingness to recognize the consequences of his lack of action.
We had military governors and millions of men under arms in Germany, Japan and Korea for over five years and had over 1 million in Germany, 500K in Korea and 300K in Japan.
We as western societies must make a choice, we must completely engage and assist with a level of force commensurate with WWII/total war OR we must establish clear boundaries of actions we will not tolerate in a civic society. One of the boundaries we must call out is: Being a moderate Islamist claiming peace while not turning in, supporting and cheering on the extremist who kill is one of the many examples of behavior that cannot be tolerated.
Our civilian leadership under Bush and now Obama choose to ignore the true cost of nation building. To Obama's credit at least he flatly says we will not engage, that is an omission of leadership, his blind spot is his unwillingness to recognize the consequences of his lack of action.
We had military governors and millions of men under arms in Germany, Japan and Korea for over five years and had over 1 million in Germany, 500K in Korea and 300K in Japan.
We as western societies must make a choice, we must completely engage and assist with a level of force commensurate with WWII/total war OR we must establish clear boundaries of actions we will not tolerate in a civic society. One of the boundaries we must call out is: Being a moderate Islamist claiming peace while not turning in, supporting and cheering on the extremist who kill is one of the many examples of behavior that cannot be tolerated.
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LTC John Shaw
You are absolutely correct. I've had nationals get upset because I said you cannot get to a city state much less a nation state if you continue to live in the tribal state. It's a hard truth.
That said our failure to set the foundation, gave the extremist foothold as they provided unmet services.
You are absolutely correct. I've had nationals get upset because I said you cannot get to a city state much less a nation state if you continue to live in the tribal state. It's a hard truth.
That said our failure to set the foundation, gave the extremist foothold as they provided unmet services.
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LTC Yinon Weiss wrote a pretty good article on this subject. Take a look.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/what-if-the-military-has-been-focusing-on-the-wrong-thing-the-whole-time
LTC Yinon Weiss wrote a pretty good article on this subject. Take a look.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/what-if-the-military-has-been-focusing-on-the-wrong-thing-the-whole-time
What if the Military Has Been Focusing on the Wrong Thing the Whole Time? | Small Wars Journal
For over a decade, and ever since the United States began the endeavor of creating a stable Iraq and Afghanistan, the dogmatic military view has essentially been “We will train our allies until they are able to secure their own nation.” With conflict in Afghanistan lasting over 13 years, and with the recent tragic losses of momentum, equipment, and territory in Iraq, it is apparent that things are not going as was hoped by many. Going back to...
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PFC (Join to see)
I've read it, it's a great piece. The greatest respect for him. Is it possible to teach the will to fight, loyalty, desire,... ?
I've read it, it's a great piece. The greatest respect for him. Is it possible to teach the will to fight, loyalty, desire,... ?
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Different cultures. I don't think they really want to learn anything that doesn't come from their own culture.
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