Posted on Feb 4, 2014
Why is it easier to make on the spot corrections with NCO's than Offiers/Warrant Officers?
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Regulation
Regulation
Posted 12 y ago
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SPC (Join to see)
Exactly- Everybody's a safety, 1SG! no matter what it is. whether it's a uniform descrepancy, inappropriate dialogue, or plain unsafe behavior. I am always polite though
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Perhaps its a matter of tact? I don't know any Warrant that wouldn't appreciate someone pointing out a deficiency so they aren't walking around looking "jacked up". Anyone who takes offense to a tactful correction may have a larger issue at hand than just an ego problem.
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SSG (Join to see)
I have always approached anyone from E1 all the way up to the officer chain the same way, in the most professional that I can. Â I state what the regulation says and I go on about my business. Â If they aren't in my direct chain I inform them then leave it up to them to do the right thing.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Very true. At a certain age or level of maturity/experience, you understand how to make people aware of things without calling them out for all to see/hear.
I have made senior NCOs and Officers aware of minor uniform stuff by simply catching their attention and discreetly pointing to the area that needs correcting on my own uniform. In almost every case, the message is received and understood. Most of the time I get a "thank you." Sometimes it's just a nod of the head. Either way, the respect between both is recognized.
You don't have to embarrass people in order to help them out.
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Could also be attitude while making the correction. Â I've personally witnessed the same SGM correct a SPC and a CW3 for the exact same uniform deficiency (trouser leg had come unbloused from the boot).
While talking to the SPC, he said 'Specialist, your trouser leg is unbloused' in a normal tone of voice. Â The SPC stopped, looked, said 'Oh, thanks SGM! Â I didn't even see it', and fixed it.
When he encountered the CW3 a couple of days later, he said 'What's the matter with you Mr. X? Â You think you're better than us now that you've crossed over, you can walk around with your trouser leg unbloused? Â Fix your jacked up shit.'
That CW3 said nothing, fixed his trouser leg, and walked away from the SGM. Â The SGM hollered after him 'You're welcome, you rude individual...you could respond after all'.
Yeah...looked to me like that CW3 practiced restraint. Â I want to be him when I grow up.
While talking to the SPC, he said 'Specialist, your trouser leg is unbloused' in a normal tone of voice. Â The SPC stopped, looked, said 'Oh, thanks SGM! Â I didn't even see it', and fixed it.
When he encountered the CW3 a couple of days later, he said 'What's the matter with you Mr. X? Â You think you're better than us now that you've crossed over, you can walk around with your trouser leg unbloused? Â Fix your jacked up shit.'
That CW3 said nothing, fixed his trouser leg, and walked away from the SGM. Â The SGM hollered after him 'You're welcome, you rude individual...you could respond after all'.
Yeah...looked to me like that CW3 practiced restraint. Â I want to be him when I grow up.
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CW3 (Join to see)
I figure Karma will bite that SGM (he wasn't a CSM) in the fourth point of contact sooner or later. Â
I'm just in awe and admiration of the restraint shown by that CW3..... Â that's something to emulate.
I'm just in awe and admiration of the restraint shown by that CW3..... Â that's something to emulate.
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SGM (Join to see)
Some of what we are missing from this story is what else might have happened prior to the chewing (previously blew the SGM off, etc.). That being said, I completely disagree with how the SGM handled the problem. When I am dealing with my Officers, I do it respectfully, even when we have a disagreement.  This type of behavior reflects poorly on all SGM/CSMs. He is only doing because at the end of the day if he goes and gets the LTC, the LTC is going to stick by his side. I personally never try to put my Commander in that position unless it is an Officer blatantly violating the standards, and then not correcting the problem when I approach them professionally.Â
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CW3 (Join to see)
I can hardly believe that anyone WANTS to walk around with their trouser leg unbloused from the boot. Â I sure don't. Â I've discovered it on myself and fixed it immediately. Â I'd say that wasn't blatantly violating a standard at that point, but you're right, SGM Cameron...we don't have the full story. Â I only witnessed it in the PX parking lot, and knew neither of the two individuals involved, and based on the tone of voice used, I wasn't getting in the middle of things. Â
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CW5 (Join to see)
SGM Cameron,
You stated, "He is only doing because at the end of the day if he goes and gets the LTC, the LTC is going to stick by his side."
I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If the SGM goes to the LTC AFTER being disrespectful, then he loses ground almost immediately. He will have to explain why he articulated such behavior as pointed out by CW2 Walker:
'What's the matter with you Mr. X? You think you're better than us now
that you've crossed over, you can walk around with your trouser leg
unbloused? Fix your jacked up shit.' The SGM hollered after him 'You're welcome, you rude individual...you could respond after all'.
Who will want to stick by anyone's side with that type of behavior? I believe the only time a SGM has the LTC's ear when dealing with Officers is when he or she remains professional at all times. Professionalism holds more rank, than the "rank" itself, in my humble opinion that is.
Your comment was spot on SGM when you stated, "I personally never try to put my Commander in that position unless it is
an Officer blatantly violating the standards, and then not correcting
the problem when I approach them professionally."
V/r
CW3 Jones
You stated, "He is only doing because at the end of the day if he goes and gets the LTC, the LTC is going to stick by his side."
I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If the SGM goes to the LTC AFTER being disrespectful, then he loses ground almost immediately. He will have to explain why he articulated such behavior as pointed out by CW2 Walker:
'What's the matter with you Mr. X? You think you're better than us now
that you've crossed over, you can walk around with your trouser leg
unbloused? Fix your jacked up shit.' The SGM hollered after him 'You're welcome, you rude individual...you could respond after all'.
Who will want to stick by anyone's side with that type of behavior? I believe the only time a SGM has the LTC's ear when dealing with Officers is when he or she remains professional at all times. Professionalism holds more rank, than the "rank" itself, in my humble opinion that is.
Your comment was spot on SGM when you stated, "I personally never try to put my Commander in that position unless it is
an Officer blatantly violating the standards, and then not correcting
the problem when I approach them professionally."
V/r
CW3 Jones
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It comes down (like most things do) to the individual. I've never had a problem with people correcting me, if I'm jacked up, then I'm jacked up. I want to put my best foot forward and represent the army and the Uniform well. If in some sort of bleary eyed delirium at a 0300 recall I missed shaving a spot on my neck, please correct me! If I was looking in the mirror and put my damn name tape and U.S. Army tape backwards, please correct me! If these god damn boot laces stick out again, please correct me! No one ever has too much experience or too much rank in the army, where they never overlook something on any given day. I don't care who it is doing the correcting either, there are PFC's in my unit who know 670-1 backwards and forwards. If they notice something before someone else does, well I hope they'd point it out rather then let someone walk around looking like a fool, and I hope that individual being corrected would realize that it's not about one-upmanship, it's about looking out for one another and having your battle's 6.
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SSG (Join to see)
Every drill I have seen multiple infractions and when I state what the problem is I get ignored most of the time and I give up on the officers in my unit but as soon as I see a SPC or NCO messed up I make sure that they know what I see and know whats wrong. My job requires me to know 670-1 and I just want to enforce it because I will always lead by example and I would expect those above me to do the same. Â Thank you for respondingÂ
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This is easy...Rank and how you were raised in the military. You were brought up in the military to respect the rank. You also were most likely brought up that if there is a problem you address it too your NCOs. One of the side-effects of this is the perception of the junior NCOs that the officer Corp is aloof. This is necassarily true.  No one wants to walk around looking all jacked up. It is all about the approach. Pull them to the side and softly inform them of their error. 99% of the time, Senior NCO, Officer, CWO is going to fix the problem. The 1% may get angry or whatever, but at the end of the day, if they know they are wrong, and you tactfully made a correction, they are not going to argue with you, because if it gets elevated to the higher levels it is not going to be good for them. In this case it is the hard right over the easy wrong.  Â
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SSG (Join to see)
Now I have in the past told a crew chief that his name tape and U.S. Army patch was missing from his uniform. Â He said to me that it was on his vest that he had just taken off. Â I informed him that even though you just took your vest off you are supposed to stay in correct uniform at all times. Â He brushed it off. Â So as the commander is walking past me I informed him that if one of the Active Duty personnel observes his uniform like that its going to make us look bad as a unit because we are allowing this soldier to walk around jacked up. Â The Commander did nothing and looked at me with that "really? Drop it." look. Thank you for responding.
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SGM (Join to see)
That is a horrible situation. You were hit twice on that one, once by a leader who refused to uphold the standard, and once by a Leader who was afraid of confrontation for the good of the Army. Best advice I can give you next time is to get the 1SG or the CSM. They can raise a lot of hell that you cant. I wish I could eliminate all of these incidents, but we cant. At some time it falls to the individual to do what is right. As for your part, you did the perfect thing as an NCO. You made the on the spot correction, you brought it up to higher when the problem wasnt fixed. Great job SSG. Keep up the good work, and dont let one incident discourage you from doing the right thing. We have all been smacked around a time or two.Â
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SSgt George Brown
SSG,Â
IMHO, once you told the offender what the corrective action was, if that person is of equal or higher rank, you should have let it go. Â It is up to that person to either take the correction or not. Â If they do, good, if not, they will get caught and corrected by a senior. Â If it comes back to the unit, then it is time for a unit "TALK" with that individual, if you get my meaning. Â There are duties that no one likes to do, and when that individual continues to get them, they will get the hint.
Another thing, is do not major on the minors, if you do, YOU will get a reputation as the one with a problem. Â Think about other things as well, could this person be going through personal issues at home? Â Perhaps his mother or father are ill, and a name and branch tape is the least of his worries at the time. Â Sometimes our compassion can carry much more weight than our bark. Â
This is just my opinion, I hope it helps.
Another thing, is do not major on the minors, if you do, YOU will get a reputation as the one with a problem. Â Think about other things as well, could this person be going through personal issues at home? Â Perhaps his mother or father are ill, and a name and branch tape is the least of his worries at the time. Â Sometimes our compassion can carry much more weight than our bark. Â
This is just my opinion, I hope it helps.
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I am a believer in treating people how you want to be treated.
If you are respectful, you will be respected.
What I recently learned, from Rallypoint, no less...is that people seem to think that when there is an opportunity of a spot correction, it's a justifiable opportunity to be a disrespectful to a higher ranking individual.
An officer can overllok a uniform issue just like anyone else, and I would imagine that 9 times out of 10, you can politely point it out and not have a problem. And, occasionally, you will get THAT guy...
Anyone can come talk to me, about pretty much anything...but if you are going to be a jackas about it (because 660-1is on your side), then, good Sir, you may go screw yourself!!!!
If you are respectful, you will be respected.
What I recently learned, from Rallypoint, no less...is that people seem to think that when there is an opportunity of a spot correction, it's a justifiable opportunity to be a disrespectful to a higher ranking individual.
An officer can overllok a uniform issue just like anyone else, and I would imagine that 9 times out of 10, you can politely point it out and not have a problem. And, occasionally, you will get THAT guy...
Anyone can come talk to me, about pretty much anything...but if you are going to be a jackas about it (because 660-1is on your side), then, good Sir, you may go screw yourself!!!!
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My personal opinion, many people are scared of rank in the military ,so it is easier to brown nose and not ruffle feathers. I accept that this is going to be taken negatively. Oh well.
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC Smith, You are actually bringing up a valid and reasonable point. Many junior leaders are afraid to make an on the spot correction. I dont think it is brown nosing so much (outside of a few cases) as it is they dont want to become involved in a confrontation, that they may lose. Stand by your opinion and dont worry about what others think.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think that everyone is a professional soldier or otherwise and some are professional in their job specifications. Â This CWO for example could be the best pilot in the unit by profession but when asked if he can take his hands out of his pocket while in uniform then there is an issue.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Rank is just that. Beneath it is still a human being. Learn how to properly and respectfully interact with anyone, and rank will not matter.
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SFC (Join to see)
I believe that any soldier had the ability to give a on the spot correction no matter what the rank is. That being said being professional and respectful is the key.
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It shouldn't be. I see an issue, I point it out. The key here is tact. Always, respectfully, point out the issue quietly without a scene. Making a scene is unnecessary, especially in public. Obviously, a Basic Training environment is different for trainees (Former DS). But out and about in garrison or civilian areas, low key. Offer a friendly smile, and they usually appreciate that you helped them out...
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I'm a commissioned officer in the Army Reserve. I am not above the fact that I can sometimes not be dress right dress, and I count on my Soldiers just as much as they count on me to say something when something is amiss (be it anything from a small uniform deficiency to decisions that affect lives/careers).
Remember, as professionals, we must carry ourselves with situational awareness and address those around us with the proper due respect. A lot of care and a little bit of tact is all that is needed when helping an officer. So by all means, no matter your rank you should not shy away from talking to an officer and letting them know something that ultimately is for their own benefit.
Remember, as professionals, we must carry ourselves with situational awareness and address those around us with the proper due respect. A lot of care and a little bit of tact is all that is needed when helping an officer. So by all means, no matter your rank you should not shy away from talking to an officer and letting them know something that ultimately is for their own benefit.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think even after taking my time and approaching the pilots in my unit, I still get a type of "Who does he think he is?" look when I say little things that I would think are a given in uniform.
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SSG (Join to see) SSG Stevenson... others may have other experiences; however, after 31 years (22 on AD and then 9 as a DA civilian) I have never found it more difficult or easier versus the ranks.
AFter I was promoted to CPL... and my PSG dug in my 4th POC about the need for "Tact"... that became the manner of address and engagement practice. I believe I can safely say that I don't know any soldier "O/W/E" that doesn't appreciate another soldier squaring them away where they aren't walking around... let us say... "chewed up".
Those that do take offense that outrank you... salute or whatever and walk away. They have a larger challenges and aren't worth you effort... as Karma is payback.
my 2 cents
AFter I was promoted to CPL... and my PSG dug in my 4th POC about the need for "Tact"... that became the manner of address and engagement practice. I believe I can safely say that I don't know any soldier "O/W/E" that doesn't appreciate another soldier squaring them away where they aren't walking around... let us say... "chewed up".
Those that do take offense that outrank you... salute or whatever and walk away. They have a larger challenges and aren't worth you effort... as Karma is payback.
my 2 cents
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SSG (Join to see)
I think if it were on the active side where we were always on post and under watchful eye that it would be easier. Being that I am National Guard and we drill once a month and I am in an Aviation unit, the pilots are really laid back and stuck in their ways. I have to constantly try knowing how a-hole ish these guys can be ask them something as simple as "Sir, can you please take your hands out of your pocket?"
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1SG Cameron M. Wesson
SSG (Join to see) I'll offer you something else. I wont ever say to walk away from a challenge... but know when the "return on investment" is worthwhile.
As for the WO... I'll give you a trick that worked for me. Call them Mister/Miss. They all want to be called Chief... but Chief is a title that is earned IMO... kind of like TOP.... when thay ask you... and they will... why. Just look them in the eye and say, "AR 600-20 provides that I address you a Mr or Ms. They'll follow that up with, "I'd prefer...." ... the you acknowledge that thet would prefer Chief... but that with you.... you must earn that from me.
I did that to a maint tech WO when i was in the 426TH FSB SPO... he was... lets us say... difficult. I did this to him, and the officers in the section caught on and started also.... the expected verbal exchange occured and I told him my position... in about a month he started changing.
Now sure it would work in a AVN unit... but hell... its worth a shot. Then you can say, "well... i tried"... my son... in the CAB at Riley used it and he said it worked with a few.
Good luck
As for the WO... I'll give you a trick that worked for me. Call them Mister/Miss. They all want to be called Chief... but Chief is a title that is earned IMO... kind of like TOP.... when thay ask you... and they will... why. Just look them in the eye and say, "AR 600-20 provides that I address you a Mr or Ms. They'll follow that up with, "I'd prefer...." ... the you acknowledge that thet would prefer Chief... but that with you.... you must earn that from me.
I did that to a maint tech WO when i was in the 426TH FSB SPO... he was... lets us say... difficult. I did this to him, and the officers in the section caught on and started also.... the expected verbal exchange occured and I told him my position... in about a month he started changing.
Now sure it would work in a AVN unit... but hell... its worth a shot. Then you can say, "well... i tried"... my son... in the CAB at Riley used it and he said it worked with a few.
Good luck
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