Posted on Oct 19, 2015
Why is it so hard to discharge soldiers who continually miss drill/battle assembly?
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I'm seeing more and more soldiers just out of training not showing up. First I ask myself why. Second I ask why should it take 9 missed mutas to actually affect the soldier? Sure you can take their bonuses and GI Bill benefits but at the end of the day it's a general discharge. I think there needs to be stiffer penalties for those soldiers who waste the militaries time, money, and resources. Any other thoughts on this?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 33
During several officer assignments in the Army National Guard, including company commander, I faced this situation, so I decided to take active measures. These included contacting a Soldier's employer directly offering to provide a drill schedule and discussing the employer's requirements under USERRA (when work conflict was the Soldier's excuse of choice). I even dropped in at a Soldier's employer, a car dealer, with a pre-written counseling form and had the offender sign it right there. I also conducted home visits with my Readiness NCO on those who failed to report. Believe me, the expression on a Soldier's face when he sees his commander and the unit Readiness NCO at his front door is priceless. My biggest frustration, however, wasn't with the Soldiers who didn't show up, but rather with the unsat Soldiers the National Guard insisted on keeping in the ranks. Once, I recommended that two NCOs, both with 20 years of service, not be retained and provided documentation as to my reasoning (multiple APFT failures, failure to meet height/weight, unsatisfactory performance) but both stayed in uniform. This may be part of the "numbers game," but it has a corrosive effect on morale and a leader's ability to maintain standards.
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Can't speak for Reserve side of house, but on Guard side it takes generally 4 months to discharge a Soldier for Unsats. 3 months (usually) to accumulate the 9 UTA's needed and a additional month to get paperwork processed. That includes the certified letters, etc.
It all boils down to what the policy letters, and SOP's state on how to address unsat performance. On the Guard side not only do they lose all their benefits, a General discharge, there's also the civilian legal trouble they get into. In TN I can swear a warrant out for AWOL. Soldier gets arrested and has to go in front of judge. If they don't turn their gear in...guess what? Yup another warrant. If value of gear over $1000.00 guess what? A felony(theft over 1000.00). So yes 2nd and 3rd order effects can and sometimes are painful.
It all boils down to what the policy letters, and SOP's state on how to address unsat performance. On the Guard side not only do they lose all their benefits, a General discharge, there's also the civilian legal trouble they get into. In TN I can swear a warrant out for AWOL. Soldier gets arrested and has to go in front of judge. If they don't turn their gear in...guess what? Yup another warrant. If value of gear over $1000.00 guess what? A felony(theft over 1000.00). So yes 2nd and 3rd order effects can and sometimes are painful.
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LTC Martin Metz
You make a good point on the soldier's kit. The costs of assigned gear add up quickly. It doesn't hurt to also send a Statement of Charges to the soldier at the same time he is notified of being an unsatisfactory attendee after missing the 9 assemblies. You're going to need it for the documentation to drop accountability anyway. It sounds like another way to convince the judge or the IRS that the hammer should drop on them.
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SFC (Join to see)
Exactly Sir. Problem I've run into when sending certified letters 90% of the time they come back undeliverable. Packet is still on hand IF they do get picked up by LEO, and go to court. Spent many a day sitting in court..lol
Luckily the local judge in a court system is former military, and has no pity on a Soldier going in front of him.
Luckily the local judge in a court system is former military, and has no pity on a Soldier going in front of him.
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There are some Commanders that either don't know how to do the paperwork and are not wanting to ask or the Commanders simply do not want to do the paperwork.
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This is a struggle. I am happy you brought it up. I have two soldiers that comes and goes.. and one even stayed away for 4-5 months, then came back and is not punished. It has gone so far that I no longer want to be a part of it. The Army used to follow it's own rule book - now it is cater to the weakest element. A "no child left behind" mentality. The Army is getting weaker for it, and I can no longer represent that weakness with a pure heart.
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LTC Martin Metz
As the pressure continues to reduce the force, the emphasis to retain / recover at all costs may lessen a bit. I've seen that happen before.
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SGT (Join to see)
LTC Martin Metz - It is funny.. as in the attempt to retain people that should naturally been weeded out, they lose people that actually contribute that just lose faith. I have seen this before too.
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Toss them into the IRR after two missed drills. Keep your slots open for those who want to be there.
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LTC Martin Metz
Make sure you have flagged them before going to the IRR. You're just passing the buck to someone else to deal with these guys later if they are re-assigned to a Reserve unit at a future time. And as a former S4, don't forget to try and recover the soldier's equipment also.
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SFC (Join to see)
IRR is a way. Problem there is when it's time for yearly IRR muster and they don't show. You're just prolonging the issue. Get rid of them, and save the time and money keeping them on books.
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CPL (Join to see)
Getting back into the IRR is not as easy as you make it sound. I have tried that, and they were hesitant, even when the soldier begged to go back in due to schooling and relocation. Had a great record, had almost 2 years left, yet they simply didn't want to let them go. It's amazing the army is pushing to kick people out, but they're kicking out the ones who want to stay and keeping the ones who don't.
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dude, I missed 1 push up on my last pt test a month before my contract ended and they flagged my to stay for another year, so I just left. I got 23 days before my chapter, but honestly that was sum seriouse bullshit on the armys part, I even had 2 no count push ups but they still gave me the shaft. i wasn't in the right state of mind at that time, pretty depressed and yet they did nothing about it, plus i had dislocated my shoulder a few times but still no relief. So chew on that before you judge for stiff penalty's!
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It is this generation has never had to be accountable, they grew up in give them another chance, do overs, and everybody is a winner, not to mention my favorite your special (like a little yellow bus special but that is my opinion). You can't touch them, beat them into submission, and paperwork doesn't intimidate them. I am all for spend the weekend at drill or spend it in jail, but the police have far more pressing things to do.
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It must be “Murphy’s Law” because I’ve seen good soldiers on AD and in the AR that made a mistake, and plead their cases to stay in and were pink-slipped in a month, while the dirt-bags completed their enlistments before they were ever chaptered out.
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