Posted on Oct 3, 2016
Why is it that we have SNCOs who are on their way out the door and do not want to share knowledge or help JNCOs progress?
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Leadership Development
Leadership
NCOs
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 43
Why is it common for newly promoted SSG to see how much more, how much better they can do with newfound rank and authority while others work to see how much less they can get away with.?
Why do some newly promoted SGT put thier head down and really get into the job while others find new and better ways to sham?
Why does the outgoing CSM, SGM, 1SG. MSG "check out" the last year, 10 months?... well for sure, some are assholes and have been skating for long before that... and some have been devoting every waking min to others, to the mission, to the soldiers..and when that retirement order hits the desk they realize how screwed they are, no plans, ignored family for years, nothing but the Army,,and that's ending..so they dig into what comes next while they still can. They ignore the old, the unit now being navigated by a new leader and focus on the family, themselves, for the first time in 28 years, 7 months...
Every Soldier has to end thier career at some point.. the ones that have been doing it right for 20 plus years....dont you think they deserve some time at the end to focus on them and thier family..so they can have a decent life after Army?
Why do some newly promoted SGT put thier head down and really get into the job while others find new and better ways to sham?
Why does the outgoing CSM, SGM, 1SG. MSG "check out" the last year, 10 months?... well for sure, some are assholes and have been skating for long before that... and some have been devoting every waking min to others, to the mission, to the soldiers..and when that retirement order hits the desk they realize how screwed they are, no plans, ignored family for years, nothing but the Army,,and that's ending..so they dig into what comes next while they still can. They ignore the old, the unit now being navigated by a new leader and focus on the family, themselves, for the first time in 28 years, 7 months...
Every Soldier has to end thier career at some point.. the ones that have been doing it right for 20 plus years....dont you think they deserve some time at the end to focus on them and thier family..so they can have a decent life after Army?
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PO1 Donald Hammond
Doing it right means family first. When the burden of the military crushes your family life, it is time to get out and take care of family. Even if that means not getting that retirement.
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SGM Erik Marquez
PO1 Donald Hammond - I dont dismiss your position, or discount it is right for your.
I had an Army life before an Army wife. My Army wife, know what she was getting into, being a NCO herself. While I wont say my Army life came before my family life, i will say there was a lot of give and take,,and that was clear on the get go... i would never turn down an assignment, a school, a TDY, a chance to do more, better, for more people.
That was never army over her, and later the boys, it was, just the agreed upon situation from the start.
Bottom line, many of use choose to have an Army life first, and family life as well....not the other way around...and I would take exception greatly to someone claiming that was improper or not just FOR MY FAMILY.
I had an Army life before an Army wife. My Army wife, know what she was getting into, being a NCO herself. While I wont say my Army life came before my family life, i will say there was a lot of give and take,,and that was clear on the get go... i would never turn down an assignment, a school, a TDY, a chance to do more, better, for more people.
That was never army over her, and later the boys, it was, just the agreed upon situation from the start.
Bottom line, many of use choose to have an Army life first, and family life as well....not the other way around...and I would take exception greatly to someone claiming that was improper or not just FOR MY FAMILY.
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CW4 Angel C.
Damn SGM that was an outstanding answer!!! Reminds me of how I felt after 23 years of service getting ready to retire and this overzealous Major who accused me of leaving my SFC (a damn sharp one too) hanging because I wouldn't change a VA appointment and him and the SFC had to go to a meeting at Division by themselves. Yeah that Major and others were pretty butt-hurt when I had to become selfish and put all my focus on me and my family. This is definitely something the Army has to get better at.
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SFC Richard Bland
You need more than 8 to 10 months to get ready for the rest of your life. That being said, Those young leaders SSG/SFC should have been PAYING ATTENTION!!! They can have there hands held all the time. Its called OJT For those that don't know On The Job Training.. What would happen if that retiring NCO Drop dead god forbid. What then? They should be ready for whatever reason. No excuses. What was the point in getting promoted. SSG/SFC are suppose to be ready to take over at ANYTIME, moment notice, ASAP, RIGHT NOW..
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The simple answer is some of them are getting kicked out and the others are busy thinking of what they're doing after military life and retirement. I don't begrudge them in either case. I had a couple SNCOs retire and they were almost never there. Between medical appointments, separation classes, job interviews, packing and moving, they pretty much had a full plate. And the ones who were getting kicked out, do you really want their knowledge?
The way I see it, if you want the knowledge of your superiors, it's your duty to seek them out when they are available. When my Gunnys were in shop, I was shadowing them for any bit of knowledge I could get. It's all about Initiative. If you don't want the knowledge, they're not going to give it to you. But if you are ready and want it, they'll give you all the knowledge and wisdom from their career.
But if you are waiting to learn when they've got their foot out the door, then it's already too late.
The way I see it, if you want the knowledge of your superiors, it's your duty to seek them out when they are available. When my Gunnys were in shop, I was shadowing them for any bit of knowledge I could get. It's all about Initiative. If you don't want the knowledge, they're not going to give it to you. But if you are ready and want it, they'll give you all the knowledge and wisdom from their career.
But if you are waiting to learn when they've got their foot out the door, then it's already too late.
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SFC (Join to see)
Cpl,
There is always some good that comes out of the bad. Think about how they would treat you or other marines. Would you want to treat your marines the same way?
There is always some good that comes out of the bad. Think about how they would treat you or other marines. Would you want to treat your marines the same way?
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
SFC (Join to see) - You are correct that even good can come from bad, but that is not the question that you asked. I've made it a point to raise all my Junior Marines to learn from both good and bad leaders because as they progress they are going to see the type of leaders they want to emulate and the kind of leaders they don't want to emulate.
But your specific question was asking why SNCOs don't share their knowledge when they're halfway out the door. And the simple was because they're halfway out the door.
But your specific question was asking why SNCOs don't share their knowledge when they're halfway out the door. And the simple was because they're halfway out the door.
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SSG-
Let me give you the other side of that coin. At a Command I was at I was Primary on several systems, two of which were specialty units. I had all the knowledge, I ran the shop maintenance program. 9 months out from my transfer I started trying to hand these systems off. No one would take them and the CoC did not see a reason for them too. 6 months, 3 months, 1 month... No one would step up or wanted to learn them. By this time I realized they had screwed them selves over and I let them by not forcing them to do the jobs. I was helping in setting them up for failure. So I dumped it on top of them hard and dirty. They complained to the CoC who wanted to know why I had zero maintenance and why I had assigned it to the rest of the shop. I explained they needed to learn it while I was still there to answer questions. Well they all played games and only did the easy work, no one asked any questions, and they pushed maintenance right to avoid it thinking I would do it for them. I transferred and for 3 months after I got Questions and requests for sops emailed almost daily, and at least a dozen phone calls some in the middle of the night.
Quite frankly while a good leader should teach those under them, the JNCO have a responsibility to step up and request the information. Why should we all waste time teaching people if they really have no interest to learn? Any one of my Junior people that come and ASK me questions I will spend as long as it takes to answer them. But i'm not going to waste my time with people that don't want to learn.
Let me give you the other side of that coin. At a Command I was at I was Primary on several systems, two of which were specialty units. I had all the knowledge, I ran the shop maintenance program. 9 months out from my transfer I started trying to hand these systems off. No one would take them and the CoC did not see a reason for them too. 6 months, 3 months, 1 month... No one would step up or wanted to learn them. By this time I realized they had screwed them selves over and I let them by not forcing them to do the jobs. I was helping in setting them up for failure. So I dumped it on top of them hard and dirty. They complained to the CoC who wanted to know why I had zero maintenance and why I had assigned it to the rest of the shop. I explained they needed to learn it while I was still there to answer questions. Well they all played games and only did the easy work, no one asked any questions, and they pushed maintenance right to avoid it thinking I would do it for them. I transferred and for 3 months after I got Questions and requests for sops emailed almost daily, and at least a dozen phone calls some in the middle of the night.
Quite frankly while a good leader should teach those under them, the JNCO have a responsibility to step up and request the information. Why should we all waste time teaching people if they really have no interest to learn? Any one of my Junior people that come and ASK me questions I will spend as long as it takes to answer them. But i'm not going to waste my time with people that don't want to learn.
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SMSgt Steve Neal
Gotta break a few eggs to make and omelette! The negative consequences of having a single system expert do everything runs against job/task diversity and contingency or combat preparation. When your expert leaves, the mission suffers... (Dumb) However, after my 27 years spreading electronic systems maintenance knowledge in the USAF, I find the FAA has BAD habit of doing EXACTLY what happened to you. The FNGs yearn for knowledge and hands-on system experience, but the seasoned experts would rather "skate by" and do minimal maintenance (ZERO training) and collect their overly fat paychecks to their last day on duty. The FAA is headed for a huge knowledge pothole and when they have to privatize (contract out) ATC systems support it is because there's no incentive for systems experts to share corporate knowledge.
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SGT Eric Knutson
I know that feeling all to well, I was at one location, been running the section for almost 18 months as the only NCO. most of my kids knew what they needed to do their job as well as most of mine (that the way to promotion, know your job and your bosses so you are ready to step in on PCS or combat loss) I reuped for a PCS and started asking for another NCO so I could get them ready for the load. Both the SNCO and the Warrent kept telling me that I am not going anywhere so don't worry about it. Both were fairly new to the unit but got off on the wrong foot with just about every person in the unit. (yes, they are the boss, but if you mistreat your people think about how much they will go out of their way for the mission, or will they step back to "just my job" mentality. We have already talked about toxic leaders here) When I left finally (only let me have 3 days to clear and go to a deployed unit married at the time) my E4's all knew where everything was. so I had my job done. but starting 2 days later the calls started coming in, "where is this, where is that" new Chief asked me what happened, told her and after that she went to the CoC and the phone calls we no longer received by the unit. If my troops had a questioon, they called my wife and I would call them back same day because I will always be available to my troops, even if they are no longer mine.
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