Posted on Feb 8, 2014
SFC Infantryman
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Has anyone else noticed this recently? I have seen more than a few Soldiers in my own company decide to do this to get out of the barracks. It seems so ridiculous to me to see people let alone Soldiers pretty much say screw it to something that is supposed to be special and for life.<div><br></div><div>Any thoughts?</div>
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SFC Stephen P.
57
57
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We treat single troops like crap, and give married troops extra money.<br><br>I'm surprised it doesn't happen more.<br>
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SGT Bryon Sergent
SGT Bryon Sergent
10 y
What is a GEO?????
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SFC Stephen P.
SFC Stephen P.
10 y
Geographical bachelor; i.e. dependent family did not accompany the member to the current assignment.
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PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
>1 y
Not to mention volunteering those single soldiers to stay late so that the married ones can spend time with their families.
More work, less money, and fewer benefits.
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PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
4 y
SGT Bryon Sergent
Geographic bachelor. Assigned unaccompanied orders. Schools, TAD, isolated duty stations.
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SGT Suraj Dave
27
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Edited 10 y ago
<p>Let me give you some background on who I am before I give you my opinion. I joined the Army a PFC, left the Army a SGT. I ETS'd less then 60 days ago. My whole military career (aside from my 2 deployments) I lived in the barracks. Maybe all units don't treat their single soldiers this way but my units did.Single Soldiers are second class soldiers in todays Army. You know how they had those technician ranks in WW2? With the rank and a "T" under it to denote so? They should do the same with Single soldiers. Give them an "S" under their rank. With how much they get discriminated against, it only seems fair. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>1.&nbsp;You get paid less money, yes I understand how BAH works, but 9/10 people getting BAH are pocketing a nice sum of money. </p>
<p>2. Your rank holds little to no value as a single soldier. A married PVT doesn't get called in for work after hours or during the weekend, but a single SPC damn sure will. Because your not married, you automatically have no life.</p>
<p>3.&nbsp;You cant live in peace. Staff Duty and CQ is always out to make you clean up some other guys mess or to round you up for a detail on the weekend. It got so bad we would actually hang out in parking lots and other random parts of post just to avoid them.</p>
<p>4.&nbsp;You don't want to ever un-pack or settle in, because they can always randomly decide to re-organize the barracks for no reason and make you move. Happened to me quite a bit.</p>
<p>5.&nbsp;No one cares about your well-being, or your problems. We had roaches the size of my fingers. Living ones and dead ones everywhere. When we complained, no one cared. The FSBP doesn't live in the barracks, so they don't give a shit. I ended up living off post paying rent out of pocket after waking up to a fat long cockroach crawling up my arm at night.</p>
<p>6.&nbsp;Everyone gets meal deductions... as much as that sucks on its own because no one enjoys the difac food..... even if your units difac is shut down. Guys in my unit had to walk for a while to eat at another units difac. If the closest unit to ours Difac was also shut down, you had to walk another couple miles to the other side of post for food.</p>
<p>7.&nbsp;Most of your NCO's and leaders at no point lived in barracks. They make standards for you that are very impractical. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>8.&nbsp;You have no power or control over the way you live. If your water goes cold, or your fridge or microwave breaks, your at the mercy of whenever FSBP feels like getting a work order, or when they feel like following up or getting an ETA. Even if your willing to pay to get it fixed, its not happening. All of our dryers in our laundry room broke, soldiers started writing "Broken" with the date on specific dryers to inform other soldiers which washers and dryers were broken. After a couple months, we just started driving to another brigade to do laundry.</p><p><br>9.&nbsp;Not enough room. After being in the Army for 2 deployments, there was no way I could fit all my ACU CIF, ACU RFI, and Multicam RFI neatly into one room. In total I had 4 duffell bags, 2 ruck sacks, then a tough box, Medic Bags, Assault Pack's, 3 day rucks etc... all of theese filled with TA-50 I was accountable for. It is almost impossible to keep all of this in a tiny room in a neat and orderly fashion. Dont be shocked when roaches die inside your TA-50 either.</p><p><br>10.&nbsp;The Chain of Command/FSBP doesnt care about the barracks until the soldiers take pictures and post it on U.S. Army W.T.F Moments. They are more powerful then the IG.</p><span lang=""><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Dont be surprised when soldiers start gay marrying each other to move out of the barracks. At first it was just a joke when DADT got re-appealed among my 11b and 19d friends .Now its seriously happening. </p></span>
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SMSgt Kevin Bishop
SMSgt Kevin Bishop
>1 y
Add on that if you are senior in the barracks, they expect you to "watch the childern."
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
SMSgt Kevin Bishop - amen to that
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John Urban
John Urban
>1 y
And they wonder why they aren't meeting their enlistment quotas. If you're single, what is your incentive to reenlist?
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Cpl Stephen Hawk Jr
Cpl Stephen Hawk Jr
4 y
I was in the Marines but I could pretty much copy and paste my name and units onto your post. Here's another anecdote about the potential treatment of married vs single enlisted. I got sent to Okinawa with under 2 days notice because another married pfc had discipline issue at his son's school or some other crap so he got out of it and i got 3 months of shots in an afternoon and got my ass chewed repeatedly for not having my check out sheet finished or all my gear issued or returned.
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SFC Recruiter
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It's been happening for a long time. To some marriage is sacred, but to others it's just a game. It is why our divorce rate in this country is so high. It starts at home though. Teach your kids values and one day they will respect those values and pass them on to their children.
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SFC(P) Aircraft Maintenance Senior Sergeant
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10 y
Well said SFC Rosenlund
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SPC Jonathan Starnes
SPC Jonathan Starnes
10 y
You're correct and I agree but, unfortunately, the army rewards those who get married. That creates a breeding ground these "contractual marriages".&nbsp;<div><br></div>
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Why would junior enlisted Soldiers get into contract marriages?
SFC(P) Aircraft Maintenance Senior Sergeant
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With barracks inspections, new alcohol policies, leaders walk throughs, CQ, Staff Duty, and everything else that happens in the barracks that doesn't happen in family housing off post housing, or BOQ's I am surprised it doesn't happen more and more these days. We are a society that has to have a quick response and knee jerk reaction to any incident that occurs on post. Unfortunately for most single soldiers who don't act stupid and just want to live in peace they get crapped on because of the few who can't control themselves.&nbsp;<div>I feel we treat our single soldiers like they are second citizens in the Army and it is a shame they aren't afforded the same level of respect that even an E1 gets just because they're married.</div>
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SSgt Tim Ricci
SSgt Tim Ricci
10 y
MSG Carl Cunningham, I saw that happen just once to a young Marine in my last command but, It only happened because of multiple comlaints from neighbors and a eventual call to CPS for living conditions.
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MSgt Vehicle Operations Superintendent
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<span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);">I just finished doing some dorm inspections last week, and although it is required I hate doing it. &nbsp;Walking into what is basically a young man or woman's house and nitpicking over the tiniest detail on cleanliness. &nbsp;The standard to which we inspect is harsh enough that if someone came to my house off-base and inspected I would fail right now. &nbsp;</span><div><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);">I totally understand why some marry just to get out of the dorms/barracks and get out of that mess! &nbsp;Plus, I am sure the Army is the same as the AF in this regard, if something needs to be done guys that live on base are always getting called out to do the work!</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);">And as a single NCO the amount of money I don't get in BAH/OHA/Family Sep/etc. pay is just ridiculous. &nbsp;We totally&nbsp;incentivize marriage financially!</span></div>
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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TSgt Scott D.&nbsp;&nbsp; Barracks dwellers do not need that kind of harassment on top of their ordinary responsibilities.&nbsp; White glove is ridiculous.&nbsp; <br>
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LTC Contractor
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10 y
It seems as though we are trying to compartmentalize the Soldier/Human.  We are trying to get rid of everything that isnt regulatory with a Zero Tolerance mentality on one side of the house and then make people sit through MRT, EO and all the other stuff to put it back in them.  Cant we address all of these things on a comprehensive approach that brings up God, emotions, ethnicity and respect during the day as it happens instead of inspections and training periods.  Focusing our correctness on the poor enlisted man who is single and trying to learn how to be a good Soldier and person creates intorerance and drives the brightess out of the Army/Military.
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SGT Cda 564, Assistant Team Sergeant
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10 y
<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Leaders need to realize the difference between an inspection and a walk through.&nbsp;</span><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Walk&nbsp;throughs&nbsp;are to make sure the soldier&nbsp;isn't&nbsp;living&nbsp;unhealthy, no white glove treatment. &nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Inspections are know ahead of time and the room should be spotless.</span><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">&nbsp;&nbsp;If you knock on my door at 1710 on a Wednesday, you're damn right ive got dirty laundry and possibly dirty dishes. I dont come home at lunch and do laundry and dishes. &nbsp;You have to understand these spaces are lived in and should be a LITTLE untidy sometimes. If you are coming to do a full blown inspection that I am informed of then yes it will be spotless. &nbsp;Walking through leaders have to understand the difference between a little untidy and nasty. &nbsp;They take it way to far and expect it to be SMA inspectable 24/7. &nbsp;</span></div></div>
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MSgt Vehicle Operations Superintendent
MSgt (Join to see)
10 y
I had one of my Airmen fail his inspection while he was in the room. &nbsp;He was a shift worker and was at home, but he still got marked down for his bed being unmade, uniform hanging on his chair, etc. &nbsp;Ridiculous.
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SSG Retired!!!
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I brought up a point while talking to other NCOs about this. The dumber we get in the barracks, the more we push troopers to do something stupid like this. I don't mean we shouldn't be in the barracks and scuff em up if the need it, but when some guys go through and wake everyone up at 0500 on a Saturday for trash being on the ground, when there was a CQ that was suppose to be monitoring the area before it got trashed, then that's a problem.<div>Lots of my counterparts disagreed with me, but that's how I feel.</div>
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PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
>1 y
SSgt Joseph Baptist Yet only very rarely does that happen without prior notice.
When was the last time you saw the married personnel called in no notice to stand inspection?
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SPC Christopher Smith
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<p>&nbsp;&nbsp; In America marriage is a contract bringing the assets of two parties together as one, nothing more. If both sides of this arrangement have something to gain by signing the contract who is it to say that it is wrong? Have arranged marriages not been around for years for the financial gain and benefit to one family or both? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; If we didn't want it to happen we would change the system. Single person BAH and the ability to live off post, or on post with a roommate/house mate. For those who cannot keep financially stable remove BAH privilage and move them into a dorm/barrack. The same with other people who cannot control themselves in a civilized manner. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; The issue really does not boil down to people just attempting to cheat the system but understanding that they are missing out on an opportunity. The majority of us are underpaid, and the ability to make a few extra dollars, and live a little more comfortably does not seem all to far fetched.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Some may not like this response but I would like to hear your reasoning if you hit the dislike button.</p>
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SPC Christopher Smith
SPC Christopher Smith
10 y
<p>SSG Blum,</p><p>You took this very personally, and for what ever reason you did I can't solve that. I can put up as a defense, although a single soldlier in the barracks does not aquire BAH on his check it is given and taken from him to help pay for bulding maintance, water, sewage, electricy. BAS is given and taken because they can eat on post, and that goes for food cost and to pay the civilians that work in the kitchens. I don't have the numbers but I'm sure that the amount of money taken from SMs that don't touch mess hall/dfac food and pay out of pocket for meals because it is the healthier option seems to me SMs are getting the tail end of things. No one said anything about getting paid Trump money, and comparing the mass of unskilled labor force that gets paid less than us is not even a good look. We are trained with skills, we work longer hours, and deal with more stress in a day than some of those people do in a month. </p><p>As far as loopholes in the system, get rid of them if they are that much of an issue. Take away the incentive to get married. Have families move into the barracks (spouses only). If they have a child let them move into on post housing. I did not say i had the perfect answer but I at least did more than a good number of people responding by giving at first one option, and in this response a second.</p><p>So, I ask this of you what is your plan, how do you see fixing the issue at hand? Can you look past your personal issue with the topic and professionally develop a plan of action that could help end the problem, that doesn't go down the path of destroying careers by prosecuting every joe with a ring and living a better standard of life. </p>
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SGT Intelligence Analyst
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10 y
What's gonna cost more at the end of the day paying those E-1s - E-5s all $1000 or building 400,000 units to house all those soldiers on base and in barracks because you dont want to pay them because they are getting over on the system "so to speak". Who is to say that they are wrong for what they do? I agree with SPC Smith, Marriage back in the times of castles and kings, empires and emperors, Large estates and Counts, Etc., Etc., people married for that soul purpose, financial and political gain to make their families' names bigger.

I signed that contract knowing that I would get a steady paycheck and if anybody was out there trying to get a job after college like I was in 2008-2010 they would know that a military contract for steady pay, a 40k GI Bill, free healthcare, hands on,on the job "Real World" experience, a security clearance, getting paid to work out consistently, free housing, free meals, pretty much free work clothes, a chance to travel to places you probably would never get to go on your own dime, and many many other amenities... This was definitely nothing I could have ever dreamed of getting in a regular 9-5 ANYWHERE... I Just want to put that out there because I cannot stand it when people act like the things we get in the Army are nothing and "We didn't sign up for the measly pay" or something along those lines is thrown around. We have it pretty good, yes the base pay is shitty but the other things that surrounds that, we have it good. 
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SSG Robert Blum
SSG Robert Blum
10 y

SPC Smith, Obviously I haven't been on this thread for a wile. I'm Just reading your comment now.  Not sure what you thought was personal about my previous response here, Maybe Passionate. I gave you my guesstimate, I agreed that Pay sucks. I think I may have said something along the lines of we signed up for this, we knew what we were getting into, etc etc etc.  But I stuck to my Values, which tells me that defrauding the Government no matter how you do it, is wrong. Defrauding anyone is wrong. I feel like the money that I earn, the money that feeds my family, is well deserved. You said Spouses move into the barracks, I don't know about all that. How bout lets actually fill our existing On Post Family Housing before paying out BAH and OHA. I live in Stairwell Apartment style housing My building has about 12 empty apartments, same with the building across the street, and just about every other building here. Yet there are Soldiers Living off Post Collecting OHA. Kind of Dumb to me.

 

SPC Gamble, Why would we need to build 400,000 housing units? I would say that by now, there should be ample barracks, and Family housing Space available, at this point in the draw down, and there's only going to be more rooms and homes opening up.

 

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PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
>1 y
SSG Robert Blum
Not a ticket to paradise... So they should be treated poorly just because they are single? What about the total cost? ALL service members aren't entitled to it? Just because you don't agree?
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CPT Student
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Oddly enough I have had several conversations with JAG about this. Most defense counsellors will have all charges dropped or dismissed. The reason why Soldiers are getting caught and losing rank is because they don't know to go straight to court martial and request counsel.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I don't think Soldiers are briefed up enough on their rights when it comes to disciplinary action, investigations, UCMJ, etc. A lot of Commanders will use article 15, as a way to bypass the burden of proof that is required in a court martial to punish a Soldier. Soldiers not knowing better and somewhat intimidated and scared just go with it, without realizing they have a way to defend themselves.</div><div><br></div><div>My recommendation to anyone in the military is that if they find themselves under a 15-6 or an investigation or any type or being recommended for article 15, is to immediately ask for a counsellor before making any statement what so ever, whether you were in the right or wrong. They can then explain to you what you should do, the same way that commander is talking to the staff judge advocate before he talks to you. Wouldn't it be smart to do the same thing and have someone fighting in your corner the way he has in his. Especially in this day and age when one derogatory thing can pretty much end your career.</div>
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SPC Squad Member
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SSG, I thought about doing one for awhile, then I realized my contract marriage would not end in a contract divorce so I scrapped the idea lol. With all levity aside I do think that the military treats married soldiers more so like adults than they do with single soldiers. It is entirely unfair and I think that unless you get noise complaints, complaints about incessant foul smells, or behavior that is deemed unnecessary by their PEERS then they should be afforded their privacy. Also I would like to bring up the question of what does marriage mean to the individual? Some think it is a promise before God, others get married for love, some for benefit, some out of loneliness, and a few for companionship. Me and my friend once made a joke to each other that if we were both single by 28 then we would get married. We really do care for each other and would both take care of each other but we are not in love so would that nullify the marriage in someone's eye? I would have been collecting the benefits of married life without a lot of the marital problems and would've gotten a life long friend out of it, what more can you really ask for? 
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SSG Robert Blum
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SSG DeSerio, if you know of Soldiers in your unit that are doing this, it is your DUTY to report it to the Chain of Command. The Army ( ALL of DOD actually) is really hot on this subject right now. Just recently in the Army Time there was an article about a Soldier at Fort Hood who entered into a Contract Marriage, Now hes Serving a Federal Prision Term, and She (A Civilian) Is a Convicted Fellon in the federal system. Its Called Fraud, and you know that they went after Other Soldiers Who knew what this Soldier was doing and did not report it.  I take care of alot of stuff at the lowest level, but this can get you brought down as an accessory just for having knowlage of the offense. Not worth it.
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SSG Robert Blum
SSG Robert Blum
10 y

SGT Blackburn, Not arguing with your point, you are correct. Anyone can marry anyone they want, for what ever reason. The prosecution for (FRAUD)  comes when A: the Soldier opens his mouth and brags about it  B: Is caught for Adultery and later admits to a contract marriage in an attempt to avoid UCMJ * Dumb by the way C: the Soldier pisses of his new "Spouse" and they run their mouths, Etc.. etc.. etc..  No one is being prosecuted for unlawful marriage, that's ridiculous, Fraud is the charge, and the above is how it is proven.

 

SPC Smith your a smart young man, but you keep making the same point, saying the same things over and over and over. You keep saying that you want to see an AR or a Law. Knowing full well that one does not exist, and likely never will. I get your point, and refer to my comments to SGT Blackburn, regarding Fraud.  No matter how you circumvent the system, legal loop holes, whatever it may be, if the government finds out that you intended to deceive them to gain financially then you just may get charged with, and possibly found guilty of fraud. If you are so passionate about the Subject, and you advocate contract marriages so much, then I encourage you to give it a try. You may get away with it, and you may get to break rocks at Fort Leavenworth. Its your life and your career.  

 

What makes this a discussion? Are we not already close to losing 5% of our BAH? Why try to justify Soldiers taking money out of your pocket, away from your quality of life programs, training, facility upkeep, MWR and Boss programs? Each and every one of these Soldiers who SHOULD be living in the barracks already provided for them is hurting our readiness, and they are not living up to the Army Values. Of course this is not the only unnecessary monetary pay out effecting the mission. But its not helping. When was the last time you can remember going to the range every quarter? Its been a wile, because we cannot afford it. Just an example.

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SSG Assistant Gunner
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>1 y
You are probably the guy that makes SGTs stand at parade rest for him
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SSG Assistant Gunner
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SSG Robert Blum
A soldier can brag all they want but the moment you try and out them you better be right because if you can’t that they are actually committing fraud then it’s your ass out the door. Just let it go
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SPC Infantryman
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG Robert Blum how about treat Joe's in the barracks better and it wouldn't be a problem what is the true definition of a marriage? Can you define love? If two people love each other and decide to get married for the health care that's still a contract. Two dude getting married so the can both leave the shit hole barracks is no different. You can't define love both are still contract marriages.
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