Posted on Aug 1, 2017
Will adding new Senior NCO Ranks (E10 & E11) improve the NCO Corps?
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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/14/army-mulls-creating-new-pay-grades-for-senior-ncos.html
SMA Dailey discusses the pros of having E10 & E11 ranks for nominative CSMs duty positions that are aligned with specific GO level positions. My thoughts are that the Senior Officer rank is where the authoritative power lies and with the general authority power as a the Senior NCO working for that GO, you should have no issues working with peered (by rank only, not position) Senior Noncomms. I see no true value added other than a DD214 and very specialized blue ID card.
SMA Dailey discusses the pros of having E10 & E11 ranks for nominative CSMs duty positions that are aligned with specific GO level positions. My thoughts are that the Senior Officer rank is where the authoritative power lies and with the general authority power as a the Senior NCO working for that GO, you should have no issues working with peered (by rank only, not position) Senior Noncomms. I see no true value added other than a DD214 and very specialized blue ID card.
Posted in these groups: 
Leadership
Professional Development
Leadership Professional Development
Edited 7 y ago
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 20
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We need to focus on empowering SFC and SSG ranks by cutting the fat out of their responsibilities and developing a mentorship program. When I was a SGT, many a SFC told me that they couldn't professionally develop their NCOs because they had no time and too much to do.
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MSG (Join to see)
There is a mentorship program per se, it's called Army Career Tracker (ACT) and Army360 (MSAF). However, it is vastly under utilized. Let's see if this new NCOER will make honest brokers of our leaders. There is way too much "liker-ship" which "promote our problems". There is never too much to do when it comes to counseling, coaching and mentoring your subordinates. Never let a NCO tell you that, if they do, then message me, I will or know someone who will be happy to correct that NCO.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I've witnessed more than one NCO get snubbed for promotion or cheated out of a better NCOER, because Soldiers didn't respond to that NCO's leadership style rather than on how well that leader knew their job and held subordinates to a standard. So, I agree with your "liker-ship" observation. Too many raters have taken the easy way out by using a the ratee's personality as an excuse to dock them for competency, instead of taking the time to coach/mentor them on stronger leadership approaches.
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MSG (Join to see)
Unfortunately that is the way of the best when it comes to evaluations. The new NCOER does not require Senior Raters and Raters to be on the same page (hopefully in the same ball park). I encourage NCOs to be more assertive in gaining their counselings and having specifics listed, it's your career after all. This is where interpersonal tact and high professionalism must prevail. It can become a slippery slope should you piss off the wrong people, but it would take quite the conspiracy for all raters, chain of command and IG to turn against one Soldier. Having said that, give it time, both Raters and Sr. Raters will develop a profile and this will give Commanders and HRC are clearer picture of how they rate. In the end, stay focus, learn everything and never quit.
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No. I feel we are too bloated with "commands" now. Trim some of the upper fat and perhaps at the operational level we might have full strength units with simplified CoC.
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NO! Services have to learn how to properly utilize a SrNCO instead of trying to create new Uber-SrNCOs. "We're going to admin ourselves into a higher state of readiness and professionalism". Stupid
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I SUPPORT THE PAY BUMP. Nothing wrong with giving our Senior NCOs a pay increase when they serve in those positions that WILL BETTER SUPPORT THEM INTO RETIREMENT. However I think it should be tied to base pay and not an add on (as mentioned in an earlier post). I don't think we really need to categorize it as E10/E11, instead lets just code it within the system differently
Examples:
Brigade level CSM E9D
Division level CSM E9C
Corps Level CSM E9B
SMA- E9A
Just the thoughts of an E-7
Examples:
Brigade level CSM E9D
Division level CSM E9C
Corps Level CSM E9B
SMA- E9A
Just the thoughts of an E-7
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I think it's pointless. All it will do is serve to pay the top earners in the enlisted field more money. Our Commanding General already has a CMS and no enlisted person doubts his power or authority, not even the other E-9s.
I also agree with what many have said here about mentorship. It simply isn't done well anymore, or for that matter, I'm not sure it has been in my 24 years in the army. Developmental counseling isn't completed like it is supposed to, and much of the time it is only pulled out when someone is in trouble.
Sure there are mentorship programs online, but most of these kids don't even know what it is called, let alone how to use it. It's my opinion that we have become a flabby, undertrained and under motivated force. Or, I might just be an old codger who used to walk up hill both ways to school in the snow and ice.
I also agree with what many have said here about mentorship. It simply isn't done well anymore, or for that matter, I'm not sure it has been in my 24 years in the army. Developmental counseling isn't completed like it is supposed to, and much of the time it is only pulled out when someone is in trouble.
Sure there are mentorship programs online, but most of these kids don't even know what it is called, let alone how to use it. It's my opinion that we have become a flabby, undertrained and under motivated force. Or, I might just be an old codger who used to walk up hill both ways to school in the snow and ice.
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MSG (Join to see)
Your not alone. Anyways, I agree that mentorship has fallen astray, however, it is us (SFC, MSG/1SG, SGM/CSM) who are to blame. The buck should stop with us. I'm done with the popularity contest and will use Candor with interpersonal tact to stand my ground and do better for those below, at and above me. On another note, these kids know how to use online programs (I can't figure out how to use my smartphone, these kids leave me in the dust). You can lead a horse to water...
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SMSgt William Simonson
I don't know how it is for the other services, but mentorship is an issue in the Air Force. Although it has improved over the last couple of years, SNCOs are still too busy trying to "stand out" among their peers in order to put themselves in a position to get promoted to E-8 or E-9. The promotion system places more value on individual achievements and ignores applied leadership successes. It's extremely rare for someone to get promoted without a laundry list of individual awards and accolades. Is it possible to get promoted based on actual leadership abilities? Sure, but these individuals are exceptions to the rule, and the real kicker is we did this to ourselves. By creating this environment we have inadvertently passed the mentorship responsibility down to our junior NCOs who likely haven't been properly mentored themselves. Until senior leaders realize the folly of this system, the mentorship program will remain broken and these same senior leaders will continue to demand it be fixed. Until it is fixed we will continue to fill the E-8 and E-9 positions with managers when what we really need are leaders who actually mentor.
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MSG, I haven’t reached that far but I feel that the rank structure that the Army does have right now is ideal for what it is we do. I personally believe that adding more E10(which is already a rank) and E11 will further complicate the NCO corps. There are a lot of moving parts as it is and to add more people in charge of those moving parts will probably cause conflict as everyone will probably have their agreements and disagreements going on. I do have a question though, what job needs an E10 or E11. The SMA is an advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, would he now be an assistant advisor as an E10 and Advisor at E11? Now how many E10’s would be running around. This is an interesting question though and I am looking forward to reading everyone else’s thoughts on the matter!
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MSG (Join to see)
SGT, there is no E10. The SMA is still an E9. The Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman is not E10 either. By the way the article presents, it will not create new positions, just give BDE level and above the higher ranks.
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Yes! I'm all for the new change in NCO rank. The Corp needs a change and we could use the pay increase. Here's my ideal.......make ALL E9s staff SGMs, and if you would like to compete for CSM (E10). And make the SMA a E11.
1SG Pernell (RET)
1SG Pernell (RET)
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I don't know much or care much about how CSM's are perceived at the GO level, they are all excellent individuals to make it to that level (same can't be said about the officer corps) I do know that they are significantly undervalued financially and I'll support additional grades for Senior NCO's on that basis alone. A CSM civilian equivalent would be 2-3 time more pay plus the fact that they are retirement eligible and working for half pay anyway. It's a great credit to their commitment to their country and perhaps something we should consider when debating on increasing a CSM's financial compensation. I make more a month than a CSM with 29 years in service, next month as an 04 I'll make more than a CSM with 39 years in service. So, just saying that Sr. NCO's get screwed.
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MSG (Join to see)
Sir, Thanks for recognizing the financial disparity. The article does state that CSM in those billets are given special pay. The base pay issue is a whole different argument. I believe most NCOs are like me and we don't do it for the money. That may be why there is such positive character traits exist in the NCO Corps. We do have our shortcomings though.
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MAJ (Join to see)
The NCO's that do it for the money are smart enough to get out at 20! Any NCO's that choose to stay in the service are outstanding individuals. Officer's at least have an incentive for promotion.
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